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Thread: Praying Mantis: UBZ II or TKO?

  1. #31
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Once again, I agree

    > I don?t agree that Zen can out SCORE Halves
    > provided 1-12 and or 1 ? 16 spread in any
    > given standard shoe,
    >
    > (4.5/6 and/or 5/6) if the Halves player uses
    > the above printed indices. How can an
    > ace-reckoned two level count (Zen) beat
    > another three level one? (Halves) Can?t be
    > true.

    I agree. Halves was meant to be true counted by whole decks, using the half-indices that Wong created. If you double all the indices, then you true count by half-decks remaining.

    Use Zen however Snyder said you should.

    It can't possibly outperform Halves in a play-all 1-12 shoe game. No way.

    Don

  2. #32
    davinci
    Guest

    davinci: Re: Halves/Zen concerns

    > I thought I provided the CVCX comparsion
    > above, for I18. Adding four more indices
    > can't possibly make any major difference to
    > completely reverse the magnitude of the
    > SCOREs.

    > There simply is no logic that I can think of
    > behind Zen's outperforming Halves.

    > Don
    Back at original question. I changed about 6 mos. ago from KO to UBZ2. I found the level 2 counting easier than true, and I had little trouble adjusting to new values.

  3. #33
    Cacarulo
    Guest

    Cacarulo: Re: That's not the problem

    > Rules: 6dks, das, spl3 and spa1.
    > EV max indices, precision 3.5 sd Max n of
    > pairs at index 200 million.
    >
    > Insurance 3
    > 16 vs T 0
    > 15 vs T 4
    > 16 vs 9 5
    > 12 vs 6 -1
    > 12 vs 5 -2
    > 12 vs 4 0
    > 12 vs 3 2
    > 12 vs 2 4
    > 13 vs 2 -1
    > 13 vs 3 -2
    > 9 vs 2 1
    > 9 vs 7 4
    > 11 vs A 1
    > 10 s A 4
    > 10 vs T 4
    > 8 vs 6 2
    > 8 vs 5 4
    > A8 vs 6 1
    > A8 vs 5 1
    > T,T vs 6 5
    > T,T vs 5 5

    So now you would have to use half-deck estimation for TC purposes, right? If I were to run a FAIR comparison I would need to do the same for Zen.
    In my sims I used full-deck indices and full-deck estimations. Maybe something is reverted when more precision is used but I don't know. We have to run sims for this. You agree that we can't compare a system estimated to half decks to another estimated to full decks, don't you?

    Sincerely,
    Cac

  4. #34
    Zenfighter
    Guest

    Zenfighter: Re: Zen's indices adjusted to half-deck

    For the same rules as above and with the same degree of precision, here you have a full set of Zen indices adjusted to half ?deck estimation.

     

    Insurance 3
    16 vs T 0
    15 vs T 3
    16 vs 9 4
    12 vs 6 -1
    12 vs 5 -1
    12 vs 4 0
    12 vs 3 1
    12 vs 2 3
    13 vs 2 -1
    13 vs 3 -2
    9 vs 2 1
    9 vs 7 3
    11 vs A 1
    10 vs A 3
    10 vs T 3
    8 vs 6 2
    8 vs 5 3
    A8 vs 6 1
    A8 vs 5 1
    T,T vs 6 4
    T,T vs 5 4





    You have to use them because your simulator do not support half-integer math. Am I right?

    Otherwise were would be the problem to match full deck vs. full deck? If this is the case then you?re forced to use these Zen?s ones adjusted for half.

    Good Luck! :-)

    Zenfighter

  5. #35
    Cacarulo
    Guest

    Cacarulo: Re: Zen's indices adjusted to half-deck

    > For the same rules as above and with the
    > same degree of precision, here you have a
    > full set of Zen indices adjusted to half
    > ?deck estimation.
    >
    > Insurance 3
    > 16 vs T 0
    > 15 vs T 3
    > 16 vs 9 4
    > 12 vs 6 -1
    > 12 vs 5 -1
    > 12 vs 4 0
    > 12 vs 3 1
    > 12 vs 2 3
    > 13 vs 2 -1
    > 13 vs 3 -2
    > 9 vs 2 1
    > 9 vs 7 3
    > 11 vs A 1
    > 10 vs A 3
    > 10 vs T 3
    > 8 vs 6 2
    > 8 vs 5 3
    > A8 vs 6 1
    > A8 vs 5 1
    > T,T vs 6 4
    > T,T vs 5 4
    >
    > You have to use them because your simulator
    > do not support half-integer math. Am I
    > right?

    My simulator does support half-deck estimation so when I get some time I will run 2 more sims but with your indices. You could also run the same sims to double-check what I eventually get.

    Sincerely,
    Cac

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