Cellini and others have talked about getting a Player's card under another name, yet I have not found out from anyone here how it's done.
Stores always want to see a D/L to give a card. I don't want to commit fraud by using a fake D/L, so how do we do it?
Isn't it easier to just walk around the casino and look for a card left on the floor or in a machine and use that? Who knows, the guy may thank you for running up some comp points on his card. (or HATE you for getting him 86'd)...
> Stores always want to see a D/L to give a
> card. I don't want to commit fraud by using
> a fake D/L, so how do we do it?
You might use a non-government-issued form of ID that will be acceptable to the casino.
> Isn't it easier to just walk around the
> casino and look for a card left on the floor
> or in a machine and use that?
No, that is illegal, and you don't know anything about the person whose ID you stole, so if you're asked, for example, for a date of birth, then what? Bad idea.
Don
> You might use a non-government-issued form
> of ID that will be acceptable to the casino.
For more information on what is legal to use, or how to get id in another name, check out our catalog for books on privacy. Also, we sell ID by Mail, which is a catalog of various ids you can send away for. I've provided a link to that part of our online catalog below. These books do very well, btw.
Bettie
> You might use a non-government-issued form
> of ID that will be acceptable to the casino.
Library card? What? Most all picture IDs I have are govt issued.
> No, that is illegal, and you don't know
> anything about the person whose ID you
> stole, so if you're asked, for example, for
> a date of birth, then what? Bad idea.
> Don
Never thought of that, thanks...
I see where seasoned pros, such as yourself will use an alias, but don't the pit want a card? And what do you tell them when they want a birthdate, d/l, etc?
I don't want to play anonomously for obvious reasons. Help! Don't know what to do.
Thanks
> For more information on what is legal to
> use, or how to get id in another name, check
> out our catalog for books on privacy. Also,
> we sell ID by Mail, which is a catalog of
> various ids you can send away for. I've
> provided a link to that part of our online
> catalog below. These books do very well,
> btw.
> Bettie
Thanks, Bettie, but aren't these IDs fraudulent? I don't want to play under my real name, obviously, but don't want to commit an illegal act in the process.
I was reading in BJF about how to get a credit card in another person's name with me assuming responsibility, but, that is borderline legal, as well, according to BJ Forum.
Could I use a card under my nephew's name?
Thanks, again.
> I don't want to play anonomously for obvious
> reasons. Help! Don't know what to do.
It would help to know what your betting level is. In general, I think only players at the extreme range of the betting spectrum, either very high or very low, benefit from using a rating card. As a nickel chip grinder, who isn't going to get much attention anyway, the comps add significant value to your hourly rate and, as a whale, it simply looks too suspicious not to get rated. That said, I almost never get rated, and I've been known to be in either end of that spectrum myself. I think where people go wrong is getting rated when their average action is less than about 20% of the table maximum at a given establishment. Compared to the increased ability of the casino to monitor and assess your game that playing with a card allows, I find the comp value not to be worth it for the typical green and black chip counter. I know it has been suggested by Cellini that they track you whether you play with a card or not, I just don't buy it. Maybe the sharpest people in the eye do that but, most surveillance rooms seem to be as inept as most pits and, as such, I don't fear their ability to stop me. You can hit the same houses for years on end if you space out your visits, never play too brazenly and never give them any reason or way to remember you. Each time you visit, you'll essentially be a new person.
All that said, I think the practical answer to your problem is to either try some line to get the pit to give you a card without an ID (it can be done, just ask and make excuses) or to use fake ID and get a card made, after which, you destroy the ID or hide it somewhere. I don't condone or encourage using fake ID, but I know it gets the job done, illegal or not, and, statistically speaking, you're very unlikely to feel any negative ramifications for doing so. But, like I said, I just don't get rated.
Cellini and others have talked about getting
> a Player's card under another name, yet I
> have not found out from anyone here how it's
> done.
> Stores always want to see a D/L to give a
> card. I don't want to commit fraud by using
> a fake D/L, so how do we do it?
> Isn't it easier to just walk around the
> casino and look for a card left on the floor
> or in a machine and use that? Who knows, the
> guy may thank you for running up some comp
> points on his card. (or HATE you for getting
> him 86'd)...
First of all, the people at the counters that give players cards out are not professionals with ID's from around the country.
They are usually older retired people that also give away T shirts, toasters and steak knives.
You may run into a smarter person if you try and get you ID at the table. (not alot smarter)
But, unfortunately IN THE LAND OF THE BLIND THE ONE EYED MAN IS KING.
Just so you know it. It is not against the law to use fake ID unless you are using it to defraud anyone.
Which as counters, we are not.
Now that being said, anninimity is not illegal if it's not being used to defraud anyone.
Believe it or not. You can even go into a bank and open an account in a false name and bank under that name, as long as you are not doing it to defraud anyone.
I don't know where you live, but in New York there are many places you can buy false id's and you can take those into casino's and recieve a players card.
I have players cards in close to 50 names.
However, my suggestion is this.
When you go into a casino with fake ID, bring a self addressed envelope with you. As soon as they give you the players card. Mail your Phoney ID back to yourself so you don't have it in your posession.
As a side note. If all this fails and they bust you, tell your name is DON SCHLESINGER. That's one S.
I figure if enough of us do that, when Don goes in to play, the idiots will be so confused. It will be like the show.
"Will the real Don Schlesinger stand up."
Good luck
Hollywood
> Thanks, Bettie, but aren't these IDs
> fraudulent? I don't want to play under my
> real name, obviously, but don't want to
> commit an illegal act in the process.
Not always. For example, through ID by Mail, you can contact a company that will give you a passport for a foreign country, which you can use as id. Not sure exactly how they did it, but this "foreign" country is actually a small piece a land here in the US. The id is totally legal, though. ID by Mail is essentially a catalog of different types of id you can get, ranging from a school janitor id to state ids (these are labeled on the back in small type that they aren't legal), so you can get whatever it is that will fit your needs, legal or not.
Bettie
> It would help to know what your betting
> level is. In general, I think only players
> at the extreme range of the betting
> spectrum, either very high or very low,
> benefit from using a rating card. As a
> nickel chip grinder, who isn't going to get
> much attention anyway, the comps add
> significant value to your hourly rate and,
> as a whale, it simply looks too suspicious
> not to get rated. That said, I almost never
> get rated, and I've been known to be in
> either end of that spectrum myself. I think
> where people go wrong is getting rated when
> their average action is less than about 20%
> of the table maximum at a given
> establishment. Compared to the increased
> ability of the casino to monitor and assess
> your game that playing with a card allows, I
> find the comp value not to be worth it for
> the typical green and black chip counter. I
> know it has been suggested by Cellini that
> they track you whether you play with a card
> or not, I just don't buy it. Maybe the
> sharpest people in the eye do that but, most
> surveillance rooms seem to be as inept as
> most pits and, as such, I don't fear their
> ability to stop me. You can hit the same
> houses for years on end if you space out
> your visits, never play too brazenly and
> never give them any reason or way to
> remember you. Each time you visit, you'll
> essentially be a new person.
> All that said, I think the practical answer
> to your problem is to either try some line
> to get the pit to give you a card without an
> ID (it can be done, just ask and make
> excuses) or to use fake ID and get a card
> made, after which, you destroy the ID or
> hide it somewhere. I don't condone or
> encourage using fake ID, but I know it gets
> the job done, illegal or not, and,
> statistically speaking, you're very unlikely
> to feel any negative ramifications for doing
> so. But, like I said, I just don't get
> rated.
Playing anon will set off red flags, especially in Vegas. I'm assuming black chip or higher. Even if you don't give a name, they'll have photos of you and ways to track you.
there are still some casinos that will give you a players card without ID. The Paris in Vegas is one.
> Playing anon will set off red flags,
> especially in Vegas. I'm assuming black chip
> or higher. Even if you don't give a name,
> they'll have photos of you and ways to track
> you.
I agree it will set off red flags, but I disagree that they will be able to track you effectively. My experience has taught me that the idea of competent surveillance is a myth, even in Las Vegas. I have played high stakes blackjack all over town, unrated, and my lack of a rating has never caused me a long-term problem and, as far as I can tell, my play has never been effectively tracked. Sure, if you keep going to the same place on the same shift over and over, they will remember you but, if you space out your visits and hit up different shifts, you will be just another player. The same things that allow you to play again where you have been backed off allow you to play untracked for years on end. The alleged necessity of rating cards is simply overblown.
> Not always. For example, through ID by Mail
> , you can contact a company that will give
> you a passport for a foreign country, which
> you can use as id. Not sure exactly how they
> did it, but this "foreign" country
> is actually a small piece a land here in the
> US. The id is totally legal, though. ID by
> Mail is essentially a catalog of different
> types of id you can get, ranging from a
> school janitor id to state ids (these are
> labeled on the back in small type that they
> aren't legal), so you can get whatever it is
> that will fit your needs, legal or not.
> Bettie
Thanks, will take a peek.
> Just so you know it. It is not against the
> law to use fake ID unless you are using it
> to defraud anyone.
> Which as counters, we are not.
I understand, but to get the fake ID, didn't I commit fraud? Or at least intentional deception? Is that against the law? Help, any lawyers out there?
> Now that being said, anninimity is not
> illegal if it's not being used to defraud
> anyone.
> Believe it or not. You can even go into a
> bank and open an account in a false name and
> bank under that name, as long as you are not
> doing it to defraud anyone.
Again, you would need FALSE papers to open an account under another name and a false SSN. That sure sounds illegal to me.
> I don't know where you live, but in New York
> there are many places you can buy false id's
> and you can take those into casino's and
> recieve a players card.
> I have players cards in close to 50 names.
> However, my suggestion is this.
> When you go into a casino with fake ID,
> bring a self addressed envelope with you. As
> soon as they give you the players card. Mail
> your Phoney ID back to yourself so you don't
> have it in your posession.
That sounds like the way to do it. I guess as long as I don't have the fake ID on me, I can't get caught.
> As a side note. If all this fails and they
> bust you, tell your name is DON SCHLESINGER.
> That's one S.
> I figure if enough of us do that, when Don
> goes in to play, the idiots will be so
> confused. It will be like the show.
> "Will the real Don Schlesinger stand
> up."
> Good luck
> Hollywood
Thanks, now you got Don against me, as well. Hell, I'm having a hard enough time dealing with these idiots at the tables, as it is.
Appreciate the insight. Also, when will we see you on the tube again? I caught your last gig on that funky contest you lost. You were doing well until the end.
Take care,
Radar
> It would help to know what your betting
> level is. In general, I think only players
> at the extreme range of the betting
> spectrum, either very high or very low,
> benefit from using a rating card. As a
> nickel chip grinder, who isn't going to get
> much attention anyway, the comps add
> significant value to your hourly rate and,
> as a whale, it simply looks too suspicious
> not to get rated.
I play $10 with average bet about $30.
> I think
> where people go wrong is getting rated when
> their average action is less than about 20%
> of the table maximum at a given
> establishment. Compared to the increased
> ability of the casino to monitor and assess
> your game that playing with a card allows, I
> find the comp value not to be worth it for
> the typical green and black chip counter. I
> know it has been suggested by Cellini that
> they track you whether you play with a card
> or not, I just don't buy it. Maybe the
> sharpest people in the eye do that but, most
> surveillance rooms seem to be as inept as
> most pits and, as such, I don't fear their
> ability to stop me. You can hit the same
> houses for years on end if you space out
> your visits, never play too brazenly and
> never give them any reason or way to
> remember you. Each time you visit, you'll
> essentially be a new person.
I understand, but at my level, comps DO add a bunch but I don't want to give my ID away in the process, either. Most of my play is in Tunica and comps come easy there. My last trip to Vegas was an eye opener. Comps are much more difficult to get there, for sure.
> All that said, I think the practical answer
> to your problem is to either try some line
> to get the pit to give you a card without an
> ID (it can be done, just ask and make
> excuses) or to use fake ID and get a card
> made, after which, you destroy the ID or
> hide it somewhere. I don't condone or
> encourage using fake ID, but I know it gets
> the job done, illegal or not, and,
> statistically speaking, you're very unlikely
> to feel any negative ramifications for doing
> so. But, like I said, I just don't get
> rated.
I hope to move to 'green' in the not too distant future. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much now and get fake ones until I reach that level?
Thanks for everything.
Radar
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