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Thread: Eeephour: 2 deck camouflage

  1. #14
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: :) Hilarious

    > I had a guy die at my table once. They had
    > him on the floor doing that electrical
    > stuff. CLEAR they were yelling, and I never
    > forgot it, you could smell the burning.

    > But keeping the count was difficult.

    They didn't really keep dealing, did they?

  2. #15
    Standard Deviant
    Guest

    Standard Deviant: Re: 2 deck camouflage

    > ... Any suggestions on how to play
    > [double deck] without looking like a
    > counter while not giving up much advantage?

    > Eephour

    My first visit to advantageplayer.com. Have become a regular at bj21.com, but we just ordered the autographed hardcover edition of BJA and got the trial subscription, so here I am. Not sure why I never subscribed before; I guess I was in overload mode on BJ info, but now I'm thirsting for more!

    Eephour,

    I've played a lot of double deck over the past nine months - over 350 hours. Your observation of the problems are what we all face. With a full table and mediocre penetration, you often only get three rounds. First round starts with 0 count, so you can't do any advantage betting on that one, so you only have two opportunities to bet advantageously. Obviously many times the count is neutral or negative, and other times it's zoomed but you lost. What to do?

    Best suggestion I have is try to play with very few people at your table. I'm not sure playing heads-up is ideal; I prefer one other person, but there are trade-offs. With one other person, you can spread to two hands when count goes up; by yourself, that doesn't accomplish anything. So you only play one hand in neutral/negative counts, but can take twice the advantage of the positive counts. The other advantage of playing with one other player is that it isn't quite as obvious to dealer and floor what you're doing; they have two players to watch, not just one.

    The key, though, is to play with very few other players. Then, instead of only three or four rounds per pack, you'll get several times as many. That has two advantages. One, the true count changes more slowly, giving you a better opportunity to size your bets properly. For example, at a full table, after first two rounds, the true count might still be 0. So you put out a minimum bet and lose. Next round the true count has zoomed to 6. But you lost. Sure you CAN increase your bet tenfold, but that often attracts heat.

    With few players, count changes more gradually, more like in a shoe game, and this is very helpful in allowing you to optimally size your bets without having to make such dramatic changes. If you're playing heads-up, you obviously get the best of this. With 2.7 cards per hand on average, 10 rounds for you and dealer will use up 54 cards. Even with 50% penetration, you got 10 rounds. With better pen, you should get a dozen or more. The problem is whenver I've had that situation, my table has tended to be the "high roller" table in the pit person's zone, and more often than not they stand there watching every move I make.

    So there's the trade-off. Heads-up gives you maximum number of rounds and best chance to properly size your bets without having to make huge jumps or pull-backs, but you're going to play exactly one hand per round and are more likely to be watched attentively. Two players only gives you 2/3 as many rounds, but you can spread to two hands at times, and there will be more distraction for the pit and eye.

    I'm assuming no mid-shoe entry and the related rule that if you drop out a hand, you have to wait until next shuffle to come back in. Some double deck games allow mid-shoe entry, and allow you to "steam out" for a hand or two and then come back in. When I've encountered that rule, double deck is an even better game. Often if dealer gets a blackjack when I have a good hand, the count drops so much that my optimum bet just became zero. It's a perfect time to blow off a little (but not too much) steam, mutter something profane under your breath (but not too obnoxious...you don't want to attract much attention, just want to look like a normal gambler, not a cold, calculating BJ computer), and look disgustedly at your dwindled pile of chips while you wave off the dealer, letting them know you'll be sitting out this deal. Let the other player soak up the negative count.

    One time I played a heads-up double deck round and the count went negative from the start and never got positive. I flat bet the entire pack; I think I started out with 2 units (twice table min) and kept it the entire pack. I never lost. Pushed a few times, won most. I won $600 on that pack. Dealer commented that I never once raised my bet, and that if I had parlayed like a lot of gamblers do, I'd have ended up with $10-20 thousand bucks. *sigh* If we only could predict the future, even just a few minutes! I was happy with my $600, don't get me wrong, but if I'd been chipping up on each win, which I sometimes do as the count goes south, just for cover, I would have done extremely well and would have looked less like a counter. Anyone suspecting me of being a counter wouldn't have had any evidence to the contrary as they watched me never raise my bet, even though I was on a terrific roll, with the count in negative territory.

    Long post. Sorry. Thought you or someone else might get something out of it. Of all the games I've played, double deck is my favorite, although all of my backoffs and barrings have been from DD. It's exciting. If you don't like the count, just flat bet or sit out until next deal. And if you get distracted (like having one of your table mates die!), in just a few hands you'll be starting over, so no big deal. But it's so dynamic, that it really holds your interest.

    Good luck!

  3. #16
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Nice post!

    Lovely post!

    And welcome. Glad to have you here.

    Don

  4. #17
    Hollywood
    Guest

    Hollywood: Re: :) Hilarious

    > They didn't really keep dealing, did they?

    Yeah, they really did. And until the paramedics got there, there were some people indirectly stepping over the guy. Go figure.

    Hollywood

  5. #18
    Standard Deviant
    Guest

    Standard Deviant: Re: :) Hilarious

    > Yeah, they really did. And until the
    > paramedics got there, there were some people
    > indirectly stepping over the guy. Go figure.

    > Hollywood

    Sad commentary on the values of both the casinos and the casino patrons.

  6. #19
    kasey
    Guest

    kasey: Re: 2 deck camouflage

    Sorry this is so long after your post, I just registered and I was catching up on the posts.

    It seems to me a card missed is just an "unseen" card and not any different than not seeing the burn card or the cards behind the cut card.

    I would just ignore it and keep going with my current count.

    Kasey

    > I have a different question along similar
    > lines... occasionally I get distracted for a
    > second and in that brief time someone busts
    > and has their cards swept off of the table
    > before I've seen any of them. If I know they
    > only took one hit and busted, I usually just
    > assume the count for their hand to be -1.
    > I'd like to know how (in)accurate that
    > is...?

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