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Thread: Mr.X: Cellini "mistakes" #4-6

  1. #1
    Mr.X
    Guest

    Mr.X: Cellini "mistakes" #4-6

    I'm taking JMorgan up on his suggestion. Here's my opinions on Cellini's "mistakes", #4, 5 & 6-

    4.Player retrieves his bet after a shuffle.
    A mistake. It's a common one, too, and it can make a casino suspicious all by itself.
    My verdict- a mistake. Snapable.

    5. Player shows inordinate amount of interest in cards.
    It's natural to watch the cards as payoffs are being made. What else are you going to do, read a book? If a player goes to extremes to see the cards, then sure, that's an alarm, but going to an extreme about ANYTHING will cause alarm. His advice to move your eyes instead of swiveling your head is very good. But merely watching cards won't cause a casino to snap. Depends on your definition of inordinate, but my verdict is- a tell, not a mistake, unless you are REALLY obvious.

    6.Player orders non-alcoholic drinks.
    Oh, come on! This is a classic example of my beef. This will NOT raise alarms all by itself. This will NOT cause a casino to snap. Sure, most advantage players don't drink booze while playing. And drinking booze (or successfully pretending to do it) is good camoflague. But this is merely a minor tell, something the casino would notice only if they are already watching you anyway.
    Verdict- a tell, not a mistake. Won't cause a casino to snap all by itself, no way.


  2. #2
    J Morgan
    Guest

    J Morgan: Re: Cellini "mistakes" #4-6

    > 4.Player retrieves his bet after a shuffle.

    I agree that this is worse than a "tell"; this one borders on mistake. It's true that civilians who have been pressing bets on a lucky streak do usually drop back at the shuffle, but so do the majority of counters, so this is something that casino personnel look for and snap to. It's also something specific that they can pass on to the other bosses. Even if you did it only one time, you run the risk of one boss saying to another: "I saw him drop his bet at the shuffle." This mistake is usually avoidable, especially in 1- or 2-deck. I watched a counter at the Horseshoe in Vegas make this mistake repeatedly. We were getting three rounds to three. Virtually on every high count, on the phantom fourth round, he'd put out his big bet, and then look annoyed when the dealer would shuffle, and then retrieve his bet. Duh! Dude, we're only getting three rounds!

    I would say that betting big off the top is the area in which I've made the most improvement since my youth, and I think it has paid off.

    > 5. Player shows inordinate amount of
    > interest in cards.

    I agree that with Mr. X that the key is to be casual. Also, use audio clues if possible. If you have a dealer who calls out player totals, you can count by listening. Or, you can use peripheral vision. If you know a player has 12, and then hits once and busts, you know the card was a 10. When you have a close hand, try not to be too obvious trying to see other people's cards. Definitely try to move the eyes only, not your whole head if you can avoid it.

    > 6.Player orders non-alcoholic drinks.

    I often just don't order a drink at all. Remember also that ordering a drink leaves you open to another possible tell: if you are forced to leave before your drink arrives, that can look weird.

    I agree that drinking, say, bottled water in and of itself is no big deal, but if they're looking for things, I'd rather be drinking nothing. Now, a bottled water in conjunction with every other stereotypical look in the book could indeed set off suspicion.

    As for trying to drink a beer slowly, or other alcohol fakes, I think that is more risk than it's worth. The downside is bad. If a boss thinks that you're pretending to be drinking, you're cooked. I'm curious how big the upside is. How much does it help you if the critters think you're drinking?

  3. #3
    Rambler
    Guest

    Rambler: It might be good to move this discussion...

    to the main page where Cellini can participate.

  4. #4
    Poet
    Guest

    Poet: Re: It might be good to move this discussion...

    > to the main page where Cellini can
    > participate.
    As you can read in his latest response to Buick, C is bent! - but seems to be over-reacting to me, esp. to Parker's jabs. However I'd like to see him continue to contribute. I'll stop here because I'm not comfortable talking "behind his back" as it were. 'just my two bits worth.

    I want to say 'though, that this dissection of his points is extremely enlightening for me for one, and my right handed hat is off to MrX and the other contributors. Nice posts!

  5. #5
    Mr.X
    Guest

    Mr.X: Betting big off the top

    > I would say that betting big off the top is
    > the area in which I've made the most
    > improvement since my youth, and I think it
    > has paid off.

    JMorgan makes a VERY important point here.
    I want to isolate and highlight this statement. I find it intriguing.

  6. #6
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: Betting big off the top

    > JMorgan makes a VERY important point here.
    > I want to isolate and highlight this
    > statement. I find it intriguing.

    See BJA, p. 106, #10.

    Don

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