El Poet: Camo

[El Poet]

Is it realistic to find 6dk in LV green play max bet $300 80% pen LS and politely refuse member card and comps, not act as if I cannot handle soft hands, not act indecisive on automatics, not give sloppy signals, take insurance when I should except always even money, hit S18, only sprinkle cam on 12 vs. 4, 9 vs 2 and sometimes D10 or 11 vs. A "prematurely" (actually to jump start the ramp). If not could I find maybe 75% pen? Could I play for any longer than an hour? I can fumbl;e my chips really well and do a hunch act, but I'll bet that won't hold up for long at $25-300. I've been spoiled playing this way at low stakes. What can I get away with. Any tips or critique?

[Don Schlesinger]

> Is it realistic to find 6dk in LV green play
> max bet $300 80% pen LS and politely refuse
> member card and comps, not act as if I
> cannot handle soft hands, not act indecisive
> on automatics, not give sloppy signals, take
> insurance when I should except always even
> money, hit S18, only sprinkle cam on 12 vs.
> 4, 9 vs 2 and sometimes D10 or 11 vs. A
> "prematurely" (actually to jump
> start the ramp). If not could I find maybe
> 75% pen?

Short answer: yes, except for the 80% pen, which is virtually nonexistent. I saw some decent pen at the Nazi hotel, but not at too many other places.

> Could I play for any longer than an
> hour?

Why should you? You should NOT play for more than an hour anywhere, ever.

> I can fumble my chips really well and
> do a hunch act, but I'll bet that won't hold
> up for long at $25-300. I've been spoiled
> playing this way at low stakes. What can I
> get away with. Any tips or critique?

Bottom line today is that, you can do whatever you want, but if they review the tapes from upstairs, and your bets vary according to the count, you can always be spotted, eventually. The key is to NOT stay too long, and to not jump bets.

I've been saying the above for over 20 years, and never has it been more valid.

Don

[El Poet]

> Short answer: yes, except for the 80% pen,
> which is virtually nonexistent. I saw some
> decent pen at the Nazi hotel, but not at too
> many other places.

> Why should you? You should NOT play for more
> than an hour anywhere, ever.

> Bottom line today is that, you can do
> whatever you want, but if they review the
> tapes from upstairs, and your bets vary
> according to the count, you can always be
> spotted, eventually. The key is to NOT stay
> too long, and to not jump bets.

> I've been saying the above for over 20
> years, and never has it been more valid.

> Don
I hear some good news and some bad. The surveillance is now so sophisticated and frequent that no cosmetic cover matters if your actual overall bettting correlation varies with a sound count. I cannot get away with a hunch better act for big jumps if they're correct more than a couple times, even if I dink around with small changes in opposition/mixed/pr..g to the count from there. the good news is that there are still reasonable (barely) shoe games and I can play fast and not have to act too dumb. Dumber than I already are to enjoy BJ.

The reason behind the longer session question is that it is part of an act to seem like a loser while I'm playing. When I get the money, which sometimes - often - takes longer than an hour, then I'm out o' there. To be exact, I wait until my winnings decrease 10-20%, then whine and leave. Honestly, I was only able to do it in less than an hour a third to half the time.

Again I'm not only rusty but out of touch. Is the Nazi Hotel - Caesars? I used to think of Alladin's in that vein.

Don thank you for your help and patience.

[Mr.X]

> I hear some good news and some bad. The
> surveillance is now so sophisticated and
> frequent that no cosmetic cover matters if
> your actual overall bettting correlation
> varies with a sound count. I cannot get away
> with a hunch better act for big jumps if
> they're correct more than a couple times,
> even if I dink around with small changes in
> opposition/mixed/pr..g to the count from
> there. the good news is that there are still
> reasonable (barely) shoe games and I can
> play fast and not have to act too dumb.
> Dumber than I already are to enjoy BJ.

No, I don't think that's what Don's saying. He's saying that IF they review you on tape, they could figure you out. Your goal is to avoid being too high profile and suspicious that you have your play reviewed on tape.
IMO, unless you have a great act, they don't need to review tape, they can tell pretty quick if you're counting. Play more than an hour, and Helen Keller could probably snap to what you're doing.

> The reason behind the longer session
> question is that it is part of an act to
> seem like a loser while I'm playing. When I
> get the money, which sometimes - often -
> takes longer than an hour, then I'm out o'
> there. To be exact, I wait until my winnings
> decrease 10-20%, then whine and leave.
> Honestly, I was only able to do it in less
> than an hour a third to half the time.

Sounds a little superstitious. I agree with Don, a one hour card counting play at one casino is max. It's tempting to overplay, but the risk of overplaying exceeds the rewards. The overplay cardcounting meter is one hour.

> Again I'm not only rusty but out of touch.
> Is the Nazi Hotel - Caesars?

My guess is it's across the street

> Don thank you for your help and patience.

[xxi]

> I hear some good news and some bad. The
> surveillance is now so sophisticated and
> frequent that no cosmetic cover matters if

I think the "eye in the sky" can use software to ferret you out, no matter how good your camo, IF you play long enough. I read from pros that it usually takes a couple of shoes to be sure.

As Don mentioned, if you don't play very long, you avoid being detected--by human or computer. They don't bother tracking you with the software until they think you might be counting. You're gone before they're sure.

> Again I'm not only rusty but out of touch.
> Is the Nazi Hotel - Caesars? I used to think
> of Alladin's in that vein.

I think it's Imperial Palace, whose charming owner once threw a Hitler party. He also owns Hitler's car. Great guy.

[Don Schlesinger]

> The reason behind the longer session
> question is that it is part of an act to
> seem like a loser while I'm playing. When I
> get the money, which sometimes - often -
> takes longer than an hour, then I'm out o'
> there. To be exact, I wait until my winnings
> decrease 10-20%, then whine and leave.

No, bad idea. Losing doesn't matter. You give them more than an hour to watch, you get into trouble. Period.

> Again I'm not only rusty but out of touch.
> Is the Nazi Hotel - Caesars? I used to think
> of Alladin's in that vein.

IP. Nazi-loving owner. Celebrates Hitler's birthday every year, demented scumbag that he is.

Don

[El Poet]

> No, bad idea. Losing doesn't matter. You
> give them more than an hour to watch, you
> get into trouble. Period.

> IP. Nazi-loving owner. Celebrates Hitler's
> birthday every year, demented scumbag that
> he is.

> Don
IP of course. That was my next guess. I hate that place. I got ahead really fast one night - the last time I was there - and they pulled this incredible countermeasure of a slow motion deal. I mean ridiculously slow. It was so stupid, because play was practically stopped and I took my chips to the cage. But from the sounds of the owner, I'd like to visit again and make another withdrawal from his party kitty.

[Norm Wattenberger]

I've always used 40 minutes as my outside limit. Last time I played longer in Vegas I was stuck at the LV Hltn. A truck jack-knifed on the Interstate, all traffic was re-routed and it was impossible to get a cab. I'd go look for a cab every half hour, give up and come back to the tables. Sure enough I got the tap on the shoulder; even though there was a conference next door and I wore a conference name tag. Lesson learned.

[El Poet]

> I've always used 40 minutes as my outside
> limit. Last time I played longer in Vegas I
> was stuck at the LV Hltn. A truck
> jack-knifed on the Interstate, all traffic
> was re-routed and it was impossible to get a
> cab. I'd go look for a cab every half hour,
> give up and come back to the tables. Sure
> enough I got the tap on the shoulder; even
> though there was a conference next door and
> I wore a conference name tag. Lesson
> learned.
Good story. I also love the badges. I used to actually go to the conventions, at least hit the display floor - sometimes for legitimate business interests. I've been caught by fellow players asking what I thought of the plenary speaker's point about easing regulations on broadcast licenses. Of course I still had an opinion, but I was sweating as the ploppie inspected my name and company. Where does that term come from anyway - plopping down, like an unwelcome stone in a calm pond?

[gary h]

Here's the difference: Caesars put Grosjaen in handcuffs after he played, while Imperial Palace put him in handcuffs when he wasn't even playing!

[George C.]

Spreading to 2 hands of $200 instead of 1 hand of $300 may help. Most large strip joints still do not hawk such a player. Don't be greedy. Stay with a 50 unit win/loss stop or an hour in each store and you should be fine.

George

[El Poet]

> Spreading to 2 hands of $200 instead of 1
> hand of $300 may help. Most large strip
> joints still do not hawk such a player.
> Don't be greedy. Stay with a 50 unit
> win/loss stop or an hour in each store and
> you should be fine.

> George
Thank you sir. Excellent tip about spreading. (I would appreciate your looking at my "Plan of the Cub" post. The gasoline isn't penciling out with one hour stops in small towns. Haha)

"50 U stop" would be based on minimum of course, right, not average or? So if I'm on the strip at the Mirage and up $1250 give or take a little of course, excuse myself even if it was two or three shoes? (I did catch the "or loss" part too.) I can do that, and have (although I have only won that fast a couple times in my life, playing somewhat lower stakes.) Would the Mirage or similar strip stores not sweat me coming back three days later on the same shift? Different shift? One week?

[George C.]

> "50 U stop" would be based on
> minimum of course, right, not average

Yes:

You should be aware that a number of strip stores now have worked "cum win" into their criteria, even for red chip players. One of the ways the Big B nailed me some time ago was on cum win. Many pros I know who have won $15K or so will change their names and appearance and start fresh @ the major strip stores.

George