Hollywood: How do you handle this?

[Hollywood]

Your at a table. The count finally gets to exactly where you want it. You build up to your maxium bet. (which for me is 10 units)
But, at your max bet you are litterally losing every hand.
What I would like to know from my fellow players is this.
Do you just hang in there and keep playing your max bet now, because you have a heavy count in your favor?
I have been finding that when the count is exceptionally in my favor.
I frequently win many hands in a row.
But, I just as frequently lose several hands in a row under those conditions.
I guess one of the things, im asking is how long do you hang in there because you have the count in your favor? I'm always curious about what other good players are doing.
I had an experience the other night which was rough. I don't get discourged because I know that it is within the world of SD.
But, I was playing along and I was actually up about 18 units. This was all from flat betting.
Finally, after only a few hands had been dealth in a new shoe (6 decks, with only one deck cut off, so pen was great) I go to an exceptional count early. So I increase my bet to 2 units, I win I go to 4 units I win and go to 8 and I win and go to 10 units (which is my max bet)and the count is still on fire.
So I am now at my maximum bet, and I never win another hand. I'm playing head to head and dropped 17 maximum bet hands in a row all at an exceptionally high count. It happens, and I understand that. But, i'm always more concerned if I did things right more then what the win loss ratio is.
SO MY QUESTION IS ROOM, WOULD YOU HAVE DONE IT THE SAME WAY?
As always, I would appreciate everyones feedback.

Regards,

Hollywood

[Don Schlesinger]

>Your at a table.

Already, I don't handle it well. How about "you're" at a table?!! :-)

> The count finally gets to
> exactly where you want it. You build up to
> your maxium bet. (which for me is 10 units)
> But, at your max bet you are literally
> losing every hand.
> What I would like to know from my fellow
> players is this.
> Do you just hang in there and keep playing
> your max bet now, because you have a heavy
> count in your favor?

Yes. What is your alternative? Walk away? Cut back? In order to accomplish what? Find another table with another high count, which you already have in front of you? Makes no sense.

> I have been finding that when the count is
> exceptionally in my favor.
> I frequently win many hands in a row.
> But, I just as frequently lose several
> hands in a row under those conditions.

Probably exactly right. Should be about 50-50. But, you get to: double, split, receive 3 to 2 for naturals, stand on 12-16, and take insurance and surrender. The dealer doesn't. Advantage to the player! But, you're going to lose as many hands as you win.

> I guess one of the things, im asking is how
> long do you hang in there because you have
> the count in your favor?

Until it's no longer in your favor.

> I'm always curious
> about what other good players are doing.
> I had an experience the other night which
> was rough. I don't get discourged because I
> know that it is within the world of SD.
> But, I was playing along and I was actually
> up about 18 units. This was all from flat
> betting.
> Finally, after only a few hands had been
> dealth in a new shoe (6 decks, with only one
> deck cut off, so pen was great) I go to an
> exceptional count early. So I increase my
> bet to 2 units, I win I go to 4 units I win
> and go to 8 and I win and go to 10 units
> (which is my max bet)and the count is still
> on fire.
> So I am now at my maximum bet, and I never
> win another hand.

A real bitch, isn't it?

> I'm playing head to head
> and dropped 17 maximum bet hands in a row
> all at an exceptionally high count. It
> happens, and I understand that.

17 in a row doesn't happen all that often. Reputable place?

> But, i'm
> always more concerned if I did things right
> more then what the win loss ratio is.
> SO MY QUESTION IS ROOM, WOULD YOU HAVE DONE
> IT THE SAME WAY?

You're either in it for the high counts, or you're not in it at all.

Don

[MathProf]

First, I obviously agree with Don that you really have to keep putting out the big bets. These high counts are just what we live for.

But you do have to be careful of heat and cover considerations. If you are losing one big bet after another, you are almost certain to be noticed. If were no other reason, then because the floor has to keep writing down your buy-ins. If you are in a jurisdiction that allows money plays, you may just throw cash out in the circle. This will bring them over to watch, but it there are problems with this.

If you can project an image of a steamer who is out of control, you can do a great deal for yourself. Get set up with a host, who will think he has hooked alive sucker. Go to the steakhouse, and get upgraded rooms for your next visit.

But, you have to be careful about this. I have gotten some of my worst heat in these situations; in fact, it led to the nastiest barring of my career.

Why? Well Imagine a pit boss watching you play. It is clear that you know an approximate Basic Strategy. It is clear that you vary your bet. In fact, it may be clear that you are smart enough to raise your bet after the low cards have come out. Some shoes are obviously hot, even to non-counters. You may hear the civilians says "Look all these low cards. When are the big cards coming?"

Now so far there is not a big problem. The boss may think you are a tourist, who ahs learned a little bit about BJ. Maybe you can get an edge, but your not really a threat to the casino (I and assuming that your not betting purple.) But then you lose, and bet big. And then lose again . You bring out more cash (or get another marker), bet big, and then lose. Then bring out even more cash, bet big and lose again, etc.

Now a tourist doesn't do this. You are showing that you are well-financed, and disciplines. These are traits that separate the serious players from the civilians. You may even be part of a team. Now you are a real threat.

You have to keep putting these bets out, but I would suggest that you leave after the Shoe. Or at least quit playing. Let the computer show that you're a guy who blew his bankroll by a lot of big bets in a few minutes. As I say, maybe schmooze the host, set up a nice comp, but point that you just can't afford to lose any more money.

> Your at a table. The count finally gets to
> exactly where you want it. You build up to
> your maxium bet. (which for me is 10 units)
> But, at your max bet you are litterally
> losing every hand.
> What I would like to know from my fellow
> players is this.
> Do you just hang in there and keep playing
> your max bet now, because you have a heavy
> count in your favor?
> I have been finding that when the count is
> exceptionally in my favor.
> I frequently win many hands in a row.
> But, I just as frequently lose several
> hands in a row under those conditions.
> I guess one of the things, im asking is how
> long do you hang in there because you have
> the count in your favor? I'm always curious
> about what other good players are doing.
> I had an experience the other night which
> was rough. I don't get discourged because I
> know that it is within the world of SD.
> But, I was playing along and I was actually
> up about 18 units. This was all from flat
> betting.
> Finally, after only a few hands had been
> dealth in a new shoe (6 decks, with only one
> deck cut off, so pen was great) I go to an
> exceptional count early. So I increase my
> bet to 2 units, I win I go to 4 units I win
> and go to 8 and I win and go to 10 units
> (which is my max bet)and the count is still
> on fire.
> So I am now at my maximum bet, and I never
> win another hand. I'm playing head to head
> and dropped 17 maximum bet hands in a row
> all at an exceptionally high count. It
> happens, and I understand that. But, i'm
> always more concerned if I did things right
> more then what the win loss ratio is.
> SO MY QUESTION IS ROOM, WOULD YOU HAVE DONE
> IT THE SAME WAY?
> As always, I would appreciate everyones
> feedback.

[BlackJackHack]

As usual, Don is 100% correct.

NEVER leave a table with a high count. Also, carry enough cash to prepare yourself for the inevitable run of bad luck where you lose 5 or 6 max bets in a row.

Even though I'm still relatively inexperienced (about 200 hours of advantage play), I can't tell you how many times I have lost BIG, pulled more stacks of green out of my pocket, and then won it ALL back on a few good doubles or BJ's at the end of a positive shoe.

Also, if you've just put down several max bets in a row, it's a good idea to leave immediately on the next shuffle. I once overstayed my welcome in this situation and got backed off after my worst hour of play (-$2500) in my life!

[ET Fan]

Did you really lose 17 in a row, or were there some pushes, and win/lose splits in there?

After 8 or 9 losses in a row, I'm looking with some suspicion toward the dealer, but I'm still chucking it out there. After 14 or 15 losses, I'm looking at the cards, under the table, everything. I'd make a point of saying "law of averages proves you can't win another hand!" ;-)

At shuffle time, I'd tell everyone I'm tapped out. I'm never playing this %$#@! game again, etc. Sit at a slot machine and stare off into space for ten minutes, like my cat died or something, then trudge back and play some more.

"What are you doing back here?"

"(sigh) No discipline."

ETF

[Ken Fuchs]

> betting purple.) But then you lose, and bet
> big. And then lose again . You bring out
> more cash (or get another marker), bet big,
> and then lose. Then bring out even more
> cash, bet big and lose again, etc.

> Now a tourist doesn't do this.

I've seen non-counters do this many times. The trick is to act like a steamer, as MathProf suggests. You don't have to go over-the-top with it either. Just show some negative emotion and don't look cold and calculating as you reach for more money or more chips.

Regards,
-Ken

[Don Schlesinger]

Been there, done it all! :-)

Agree 100%.

Don

> Did you really lose 17 in a row, or were
> there some pushes, and win/lose splits in
> there?

> After 8 or 9 losses in a row, I'm looking
> with some suspicion toward the dealer, but
> I'm still chucking it out there. After 14 or
> 15 losses, I'm looking at the cards, under
> the table, everything . I'd make a point of
> saying "law of averages proves you
> can't win another hand!" ;-)

> At shuffle time, I'd tell everyone I'm
> tapped out. I'm never playing this %$#@!
> game again, etc. Sit at a slot machine and
> stare off into space for ten minutes, like
> my cat died or something, then trudge back
> and play some more.

> "What are you doing back here?"

> "(sigh) No discipline."

> ETF

[Hollywood]

> Been there, done it all! :-)

> Agree 100%.

> Don

In all fairness, when I said 17 in a row, I was counting doubles and splits as 2. I had 3 doubles and one split ( lost them all) in the sequence. And also I had one double on the split. But, I still counted the double on the split as 2 not 3. So if you want to get technical, it was 13 in a row which amounted to 180 units in about what seemed like a minute, but was probably closer to 3 minutes. Each double was a $2000.00 loss. The split was a $3000.00 loss.
I try to play without an opinion. No such thing as bad luck. Just strong math principals. A high high plus count, I hang in there. And let me tell you something, when i'm betting like that you can't blame me for starting to question what I believe. But, I hang in there and do what i'm supposed to do.
All i'm trying to find out, is if I did it the way I was supposed to. And basically Don said "yes". So I guess from everyones feedback if it came up the same way next time, I should do it exactly the same way. Bite my lip and put it out there. Like Don said, whats the alternative. Go to another table where I dont have the count. I'm a good listener, and I WILL ABSOLUTLY be back at the table tonight.
Just sharing my experiences and getting feedback.
It's like I read someplace BJ will test your soul.

Regards

Hollywood

[Double21]

> For what's it worth, I set a loss limit and quit when it is reached---period; with one exception. If I'm playing a hand and have a double or split opportunity I take it. There is absolutely no mathematical justification for quiting---for me it's only to adjust mentally. Other people are wired differently and continue to play if other conditions remain the same; game conditions; etc. It all depends on your makeup.

[Kyle Sever]

It appears you are betting 1-10 black, correct? With all respect, Hollywood, do you feel that is an appropriate level of play? I have read many of your posts, and I will say that you are progressing, but I don't think you are ready for high stakes blackjack. You may want to lower your stakes, take your time, be patient, study the game, and then move back up. Good luck, and I wish I had the bankroll to bet that big.

[Don Schlesinger]

I will say this much: there is no way in the world to lose more money faster than to play the shoe, alone, with a big spread.

The swings can and will be astronomical. So, maybe you want to play for lower stakes, or maybe you want to play with others, both of which will cut both your EV and your SD, on an hourly basis.

Or, maybe you really are ready for prime time! :-)

Don

[Silks]

Take the l out of dealth and what do you get?
Which is what not playing into high counts will do to your bankroll in the LONG RUN. Anything can and will happen in the short run!

[Silks]

> BJ will test your soul

I like that.

You're betting unit is $75?
With a bank like that you should be on RGE PRO NET.