Hollywood: Don, another question.

[Hollywood]

The same night, while the count was very high, I had my maximum bet of 10 units out there. Dealer had a 5 showing and I was dealth a pair of fours. I put up the additional 10 units and doubled on the 8. Should I have split the fours instead of the double? I received a 3, but the dealer busted. A 20 unit win. But, I was thinking about it on the way home.

As part of the KO indices, I doubled. And with those 3 cards being dealth the count went to +10. This all came about early in the shoe.
I questioned myself on this the whole way home.
What's your take?

Hollywood

[Don Schlesinger]

> What's your take?

My take is that you shouldn't be playing a count strategy, for big money, no less, if you don't already know BS perfectly!

Was this a DAS game? If so, it's BS to split, not double. If not, then you did the right thing.

But, the point is, you should already KNOW this!

Don

[Kyle Sever]

> My take is that you shouldn't be playing a
> count strategy, for big money, no less, if
> you don't already know BS perfectly!

I assume that you have Griffin's 'perfect' basic strategy memorized?

[Hollywood]

> My take is that you shouldn't be playing a
> count strategy, for big money, no less, if
> you don't already know BS perfectly!

> Was this a DAS game? If so, it's BS to
> split, not double. If not, then you did the
> right thing.

> But, the point is, you should already KNOW
> this!

> Don

Don I know the BS, as it exists in KO like the back of my hand. That's the problem. On page 28 and page 29 Fuchs and Vancura indicate never split 4's.

Now when you turn to page 85 as part of the Preferred Strategy Matrix it indicates at +4 you do something differnt when you have 8. It does not say anything about combinations of 8. So as a result I assumed it is a double. No place do they address the spliting of 4's at any count.
But this is a DAS game, that is why i'm asking the question. Because KO dosn't say to do it, but it didn't seem right to me.

Don I also didn't understand your first sentence. "You shouldn't be playing a count strategy, for big money". I don't get what that means. Please let me know if i'm doing something wrong so I can correct it. If I can't ask you, who am I going to ask?

Thanks Don,

Hollywood

[Don Schlesinger]

> Don I know the BS, as it exists in KO like
> the back of my hand. That's the problem. On
> page 28 and page 29 Fuchs and Vancura
> indicate never split 4's.

K-O is NOT a valid source of BS. Griffin is, Revere is, Grosjean is, the Internet sites that give the reliable charts are. You can't learn BS from K-O; it's not an appropriate reference.

> Now when you turn to page 85 as part of the
> Preferred Strategy Matrix it indicates at +4
> you do something different when you have 8.
> It does not say anything about combinations
> of 8. So as a result I assumed it is a
> double. No place do they address the
> spliting of 4's at any count.
> But this is a DAS game, that is why i'm
> asking the question. Because KO doesn't say
> to do it, but it didn't seem right to me.

See above. Before you learn to count, you learn the BS for the game you're going to be playing. So, if you play shoes with DAS, you learn that fours are split vs. 5 and 6. Then, you can learn the indices that tell you when NOT to split.

> Don I also didn't understand your first
> sentence. "You shouldn't be playing a
> count strategy, for big money". I don't
> get what that means. Please let me know if
> i'm doing something wrong so I can correct
> it. If I can't ask you, who am I going to
> ask?

It means that before you learn to count, and before you count and then play for big money, it should be a given that you have first learned BS perfectly for the game you are going to play. And, you haven't done that, apparently.

Don

[Silks]

>Not Don but I had the same thing happen to me tonight except my 4's were up against a dealer 6.
I thought about splitting them as well but didnt have enough money to do so (my max bet was up and I was down 20 units at the time)I received a 10 to make my 18 pat and the dealer proceeded to bust WHEW! Anyways in my opinion splitting 4's is kinda like splitting 5's and 10's its risky but it is an advanced play so if you know youre stuff and the indices or parameter charts say do it then never hesitate to do so.

Silks

[Don Schlesinger]

> Anyways in my
> opinion splitting 4's is kinda like
> splitting 5's and 10's its risky but it is
> an advanced play so if you know youre stuff
> and the indices or parameter charts say do
> it then never hesitate to do so.

With all due respect, what I'm trying to point out is that splitting 4s v. 5 and 6 in a DAS game is as much basic strategy as any other play. It is neither "advanced" nor especially risky, with the 4-4 v. 6 play carrying a hefty 16% edge for the player.

Stop thinking, and just do it!

Don

[Vetsen]

> With all due respect, what I'm trying to
> point out is that splitting 4s v. 5 and 6 in
> a DAS game is as much basic strategy as any
> other play. It is neither
> "advanced" nor especially risky,
> with the 4-4 v. 6 play carrying a hefty 16%
> edge for the player.

> Stop thinking, and just do it!

> Don

I could be wrong and I didn't bother to look it up, but I was thinking there was a really high count (10ish) where you double instead of split 4's against a 5 or 6.

[ET Fan]

I think it's +6 for 44 v 6. For EV maximizing, splittting always takes precedence over doubling.

Basically, Don is right. If it's basic, basically just do it.

ETF