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Thread: 98%: Superfun 21 + Hole Carding

  1. #1

    98%: Superfun 21 + Hole Carding

  2. #2
    J Morgan

    J Morgan: Re: Superfun 21 + Hole Carding

    You are correct that the crazy rules of Superfun 21 make it a good game for hole carders. I have played it, but done so by the seat of my pants. Unfortunately, Superfun numbers are low on the priority list right now, though I've received several requests. Don't worry, if you find a good dealer, you'll beat the game easily.

  3. #3

    98%: Re: Superfun 21 + Hole Carding

    Yes, I imagine it is not. Much luck with the legal matters.

    The dealers have been found (whoever thinks hole carding is a thing of the past in Las Vegas is wrong (as I once was)), but the decision on whether or not to double an A,T after splitting aces against a 13 still remains. Speaking of splitting aces, the correct strategy for that must be different, given that you can draw to aces and even double after you've split them and drawn to them. Then there's also the matter of an 11 against a you double and then surrender if you catch crap or do you hit to beat it. Ah well, I suppose these questions will have to wait until 'Beyond Counting Part Deux' (we hope it will be more successful than the 'Hot Shots' of the same name). I will be quite interested to see what the figure for the player edge in Superfun is too, because it seems to me that it should be pretty high (surrender and double on any number of cards is a hole-carder's dream).

  4. #4
    Mr. X

    Mr. X: Re: Superfun 21 + Hole Carding

    I didn't do any computer simulations, but with the basic statistics available, you should definitely DD on 11 vs 17, and surrender if you lose. In fact, double on 11 vs 18 too (and of course surrender losers). An 11 vs 20, 11 vs 19, 10 vs 19 and 9 vs 18 appear to be very close plays, I'd say DD only on a decent plus count, since the DD eliminates the 5&6 card bonus potential. The 9 vs 18 DD is the slightly weaker of the 4, because a 'hit only' can still DD if it gets a 2. Of course, if it's a 4 card 10 or 11, just hit, the potential for 5 card 21 wins double and 6 card charlie eliminate the DD option. A very tricky game. The 11 vs 20 seems anti-intuitive to be so close.
    IMO, the question of DD on split soft 21 is moot... I would STRONGLY urge you do NOT do it. A rule of thumb is- don't do anything that a stupid player would not do. Don't surrender 19's against a 20, for instance.
    The myriad of options make for good potential, it's strong, but not as strong as one may intuitively think. A lot of the options supercede the hole card knowledge. For instance, I had a strong + count, read a 10-10 for dealer (I only had ten/non-ten knowledge, I could usually spot the 10 card markings on the corner only), and surrendered two 15's. Sounds like a strong play, except it is basic strategy to surrender those 15's with that count vs. a 10, so I did not reward myself any "E" (I keep a running count of my E (expected value) while I play). Likewise, I have a 10 vs 8, read 10 down, I double, with the intent of surrendering if I have <18. But if I catch a 9-10-A, I win...but no "strategy switch", the hole card knowledge didn't change what I would have done anyway, BS is DD on 10 vs. 8, and I didn't surrender. Many other cases like that, where even with hole card knowledge, I'd invoke the same options as I would have with Basic Strategy. And since it's dealt face up, I have to pass on things like hitting soft 19 vs 20, or even hitting 14's vs low cards. No question that the options are great to have. But I have often been irked by the lack of "strategy switches" from hole card info. They are very good, but not great. Also, when invoking the rule options, misreads tend to be significantly more costly in terms of "E" (and in terms of real money, too!).
    I think our friend J.G. is, as usual, correct- Superfun with hole card knowledge will get the money, even with some occasional misplays of the more complex situations. But it is not shooting fish in a barrel, not by a long shot.

  5. #5

    puck: Re: Superfun 21 + Hole Carding

    i am sorry for my ignorance, but what the heck is superfun 21 and where can you find it? also, where are these dealers?

    i'll admit, i believe your statement about las vegas. at one point, i had it very good in vegas. unfortunately, my findings seem to be disintegrating and slipping through my fingers as we speak. currently, i only have one good opportunity and all it takes is a job change or firing and it is erased. research is hard work.



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