12/11/05 20:49:51 Viktor Logs in

12/11/05 20:50:04 Mister_J Logs in

12/11/05 20:50:14 Mister_J: Hey Viktor

12/11/05 20:50:26 Viktor: Hey hey Mister_J!

12/11/05 20:50:42 Mister_J: How is everything?

12/11/05 20:50:56 Mister_J: Hopefully we'll get a nice turnout...

12/11/05 20:51:02 Bettie Logs in

12/11/05 20:51:16 Mister_J: Hi Bettie

12/11/05 20:51:24 Bettie: Hi! no problems, I presume?

12/11/05 20:52:05 Mister_J: no problems at all, Bettie. Thanks for making it so easy.

12/11/05 20:52:10 Viktor: How are things going with your kick-ass box set?

12/11/05 20:52:50 Mister_J: Things are going well. We have gotten really good feedback from it. Literally everyone that has commented on it has loved it

12/11/05 20:53:07 Mister_J: of course, it could be that they were being nice to me, but....

12/11/05 20:55:02 Mister_J: is there anything in particular you want me to say or not say, btw?

12/11/05 20:55:18 Viktor: Nope, just whatever you're comfortable with.

12/11/05 20:55:23 Mister_J: ok

12/11/05 20:55:47 Mister_J: I like your site. It is really well done

12/11/05 20:56:39 Viktor: Thanks. It really needs a facelift though. I need more smiling people playing blackjack.

12/11/05 20:56:47 Mister_J:

12/11/05 20:57:15 Viktor: Any takers on the private consulting?

12/11/05 20:57:28 Mister_J: When was the last time you updated it? I can't remember for sure, but it has been the same for at least the last 1-2 years that I can rememeber

12/11/05 20:57:47 Mister_J: It has a lot of info, which is what I like

12/11/05 20:58:04 Mister_J: yeah, we have had maybe close to 10 now

12/11/05 20:58:09 Viktor: Probably over 2 years.

12/11/05 20:58:14 Viktor: That's awesome.

12/11/05 20:58:22 Hollywood Logs in

12/11/05 20:58:36 Viktor: Hollywood!

12/11/05 20:58:39 Mister_J: yeah, we don't really market it. people just happen to see it on our site

12/11/05 20:58:44 Bettie: Hey, long time no see hollywood!

12/11/05 20:58:51 Hollywood: hi guys

12/11/05 20:58:52 Mister_J: hi hollywood

12/11/05 20:59:17 Hollywood: hi mister

12/11/05 20:59:24 Viktor: Mister_j This is a different Hollywood, this is the Original AP.com Hollywood, not Hollywood Dave.

12/11/05 20:59:35 Mister_J: oh! Hi anyway!

12/11/05 20:59:35 Bettie: mister j, meet hollywood, big-time ac player and a hell of a great guy

12/11/05 20:59:38 Hollywood: lol

12/11/05 21:00:01 Hollywood: thats a nice thing to say

12/11/05 21:00:04 Viktor: How's AC treating you?

12/11/05 21:01:06 Hollywood: It seems they have been allowing me to play lately

12/11/05 21:01:17 Bettie: since hollywood is usually much too busy to attend our sunday night chats, he must have been intrigued by the chance to chat with an MIT guy!

12/11/05 21:01:18 Viktor: Well that's awfully nice of them.

12/11/05 21:01:34 Mister_J: just talked to mike. He will be on in a few minutes

12/11/05 21:01:39 Wolverine Logs in

12/11/05 21:01:40 Hollywood: u r correct bettie

12/11/05 21:01:48 Viktor: Hey Wolverine!

12/11/05 21:01:53 Wolverine: hi all....

12/11/05 21:01:55 Hollywood: Hi Wolverine

12/11/05 21:01:57 Bettie: hey wolfie

12/11/05 21:02:00 Mister_J: hi wolverine

12/11/05 21:02:22 Bettie: mike's not having any trouble getting on, is he?

12/11/05 21:02:31 Hollywood: I never know what I can get out of these by just even listening

12/11/05 21:02:34 Mister_J: no, b

12/11/05 21:02:44 Mister_J: just needed a few min

12/11/05 21:02:52 Bettie: okay, good

12/11/05 21:03:51 Boardwalker Logs in

12/11/05 21:04:07 Boardwalker: Hi

12/11/05 21:04:23 Bettie: hi boardwalker - again, someone i haven't seen here for a long time!

12/11/05 21:04:25 Wolverine: Took ??K this weekend total. It is nice to see the tide turning!

12/11/05 21:04:48 Mister_J: hi b-walk

12/11/05 21:04:58 Mister_J changes name to MIT_Mister_J

12/11/05 21:05:02 Bettie: if you guys have any questions for Mr. J, feel free to start asking away

12/11/05 21:05:09 MIT_Mister_J: how much do you play, wolfie?

12/11/05 21:05:13 Viktor: MIT_MIKE will be in soon too.

12/11/05 21:05:17 Wolverine: Mister J, what character are you portrayed as in the book? MIT Mike answered that question last time, it gave me a picture of who he was.

12/11/05 21:05:42 Wolverine: all the stats, Mr J? Let me add up the times, I just got home.

12/11/05 21:05:49 Illusion Logs in

12/11/05 21:05:53 Wolverine: I play XXXX though.

12/11/05 21:06:00 MIT_Mister_J: MIT Mike is fisher. There were dozens of people on the team from time to time, and only 6 were in the book. unfortunately, I wasn't one of them

12/11/05 21:06:21 MIT_Mister_J: I played from 1993 with SI, and stopped playing in 1998

12/11/05 21:06:28 Illusion: hello all

12/11/05 21:06:59 MIT_Mister_J: hi illusion

12/11/05 21:07:08 Illusion: Hello Mr. J

12/11/05 21:07:23 MIT_Mister_J: Has anyone heard of Strategic Investments?

12/11/05 21:07:29 Hollywood: No

12/11/05 21:07:47 Illusion: nope

12/11/05 21:08:06 MIT_Mister_J: SI was actually a legal entity that was created for the MIT blackjack team

12/11/05 21:08:10 Boardwalker: I don't know either

12/11/05 21:08:11 Wolverine: Mr J, total time played was 14.75 hours. Only had one losing session.

12/11/05 21:08:30 MIT_Mister_J: It was started in 1992, and folded in 1993. It did alright....not stellar. The real money didn't start until 1994

12/11/05 21:08:39 Bettie: what was it's purpose?

12/11/05 21:08:39 MIT_Mister_J: nice wolfie

12/11/05 21:08:40 Wolverine: Spread was $XX to 2x$XX or one hand at $XX.

12/11/05 21:09:13 MIT_Mister_J: SI was the first real thing that could be called the "MIT BJ team"

12/11/05 21:09:18 Wolverine: Who backed SI, Mickey Rosa?

12/11/05 21:09:25 landyacht Logs in

12/11/05 21:09:30 MIT_Mister_J: it was started by three people, and hired students to play

12/11/05 21:09:38 MIT_Mister_J: MR was one of three

12/11/05 21:09:43 Bettie: i didn't realize the MIT team was so young

12/11/05 21:09:49 MIT_Mister_J: actually, MR started playing in ~1982

12/11/05 21:10:14 Wolverine: Was there really "drills" in classrooms after school like the book?

12/11/05 21:10:19 MIT_Mister_J: but it wasn't until 1992 when SI was formed that things became high stakes with a lot of people

12/11/05 21:10:23 Wolverine: Or was it more playing BJ and testing each other?

12/11/05 21:10:42 MIT_Mister_J: yes, woflie, we practiced in the classrooms at night

12/11/05 21:11:17 Hollywood: Mit, how well financed were you?

12/11/05 21:11:30 MIT_Mister_J: I personnaly started playing with MIT Mike, "Martinez," and "Kevin Lewis" in the summer of 1993....that was a fun time

12/11/05 21:11:48 MIT_Mister_J: the bankroll for SI was ~$1 million

12/11/05 21:11:59 Wolverine: Was Martinez as flamboyant and cocky as the book makes him out to be?

12/11/05 21:12:02 MIT_Mister_J: lol

12/11/05 21:12:18 MIT_Mister_J: not really. He is actually quite quiet and a really nice guy

12/11/05 21:12:23 MIT_Mister_J: funny...

12/11/05 21:12:41 Wolverine: Were you ever the donkey and had to carry the $$$$ through the airport?

12/11/05 21:12:48 MIT_Mister_J: he is a really good player, though. He and MIT Mike were the 2 main guys from 1994 to 1998

12/11/05 21:13:01 landyacht: Was reality much different from the TV depiction?

12/11/05 21:13:29 MIT_Mister_J: almost everyone carried money. the thing with carrying money, though, was that if you had it, then you were responsible for it

12/11/05 21:13:32 Wolverine: So if I read the book correctly, a team mate would pass on the count using your "word code" and then the BP kept the count and played from there, right?

12/11/05 21:14:04 MIT_Mister_J: exactly. we would pass the count by saying a key word

12/11/05 21:14:15 Hollywood: Did your team take turns on who the BP would be?

12/11/05 21:14:25 Wolverine: On average, the BP would play how many hands before taking off?

12/11/05 21:14:46 MIT_Mister_J: the BP was someone who had a good "look"

12/11/05 21:14:58 MIT_Mister_J: and someone who passed what we called the BP checkout

12/11/05 21:15:04 MIT_Mister_J: not everyone could be one.

12/11/05 21:15:10 Illusion: BP check out?

12/11/05 21:15:12 MIT_Mister_J: some people were gorrilla BPs, too

12/11/05 21:15:18 Hollywood: That's an interesting point, what was considered a good look?

12/11/05 21:15:27 Wolverine: asian looking...right?

12/11/05 21:15:39 MIT_Mister_J: the thing that made us good was that we trained....and trained in a manner that made sense

12/11/05 21:15:44 MIT_Mister_J: yes, asian looking

12/11/05 21:15:47 Viktor: Illusion "Check out" is the final test given to a player or BP before they're put into play.

12/11/05 21:16:04 MIT_Mister_J: by "make sense" I mean, you need to learn by doing

12/11/05 21:16:17 Illusion: ah, thought it might have been more of a back ground check

12/11/05 21:16:43 MIT_Mister_J: it is a step by step progression as a player that made us good. we really did break card counting down into small bites

12/11/05 21:16:54 Wolverine: just like education!

12/11/05 21:16:55 MIT_Mister_J: at first, ALL you did was play basic strategy

12/11/05 21:17:08 Wolverine: learn a skill, use it, master it, learn a new skill that builds on the old one.

12/11/05 21:17:14 MIT_Mister_J: you did not do anything else until you passed the BS checkout

12/11/05 21:17:23 Hollywood: I don't know how much of an issue this was in the 90's, but how were fake id's handled

12/11/05 21:17:25 MIT_Mister_J: you need a good foundation...just like a house!

12/11/05 21:17:30 Bettie: like your "60 minutes" dvd - excellent for learning to count

12/11/05 21:18:33 MIT_Mister_J: after you mastered Basic, you then started counting without betting or playing (the more experienced dealer played your hand), then when you passed that, you started flat betting as you counted, and so on...each time a little more advanced....

12/11/05 21:18:53 MIT_Mister_J: ...but in a very logical progression where you didn't move on until you mastered the previous step

12/11/05 21:19:23 MIT_Mister_J: yes, Bettie and Viktor carry our DVD. It is good for begineers to intermediate.

12/11/05 21:19:32 landyacht: I have the impression that you are building new teams... that you will be back. True?

12/11/05 21:19:57 MIT_Mister_J: hollywood, fake IDs were at the discretion of the player

12/11/05 21:19:59 Viktor: And we carry the kick-ass box set!

12/11/05 21:20:10 MIT_Mister_J: nobody had to do it if they didn't want to, but almost everyone did

12/11/05 21:20:17 Wolverine: Have all the "old" MIT players from the 90's been burned? Or can most of you still play in a casino?

12/11/05 21:20:20 Hollywood: So each person handled his or her own?

12/11/05 21:20:43 MIT_Mister_J: the box set is good from beginners to advanced players. It covers EVERYTHING you could ever want to learn about counting cards.

12/11/05 21:21:06 MIT_Mister_J: lol. most of us cannot play, at least not with any decent unit

12/11/05 21:21:21 Wolverine: facial recognition or what?

12/11/05 21:21:39 Sun_Runner Logs in

12/11/05 21:21:40 MIT_Mister_J: remember when the fad was to have your picture on your credit card?

12/11/05 21:21:48 Wolverine: yep

12/11/05 21:22:11 Boardwalker: Can you get the box set minus the bj layout, cards, discard rack?

12/11/05 21:22:17 MIT_Mister_J: you would be surprised how small the Vegas gaming industry is. It is more the people on the floor just got to know us too well

12/11/05 21:22:45 Bettie: Boardwalker, the dvd is for sale through us, and they sell the manual separately. We could start carrying that, too, of course

12/11/05 21:22:58 Bettie: www.blackjackinstitute.com

12/11/05 21:23:13 MIT_Mister_J: well, back in the 1990's, security wasn't as strict as it is now, so you could actually check in with a credit card with your picture on it. You would just get a real credit card in a fake name, and send in your real picture. did that make sense?

12/11/05 21:23:29 Hollywood: That is an interesting point. Indicating the floor people in most cases are the problem

12/11/05 21:23:42 MIT_Mister_J: yes, those damn floor people.

12/11/05 21:23:47 Hollywood: lol

12/11/05 21:24:01 MIT_Mister_J: I actually tried to play again in 2002

12/11/05 21:24:08 Hollywood: what happened?

12/11/05 21:24:33 MIT_Mister_J: I was having good luck for a few months playing a smaller unit, until I got backed off at 4 casinos in about 3 weeks. I figured something was up.

12/11/05 21:25:05 MIT_Mister_J: I later learned that a new Griffin flyer was out on me.

12/11/05 21:25:05 Wolverine: how do you think the first casino found you?

12/11/05 21:25:09 MIT_Mister_J: Funny story....

12/11/05 21:25:15 Hollywood: They take it personal when u win lol

12/11/05 21:25:33 Parker Logs in

12/11/05 21:25:38 Hollywood: hipark

12/11/05 21:25:46 Wolverine: hi parker

12/11/05 21:25:57 Boardwalker: Hi Parker

12/11/05 21:25:59 MIT_Mister_J: I met the first person who backed me off that year and got me burnt out. She used to work at Green Valley, and is a really nice person

12/11/05 21:26:30 MIT_Mister_J: hi parker

12/11/05 21:26:33 Parker: Hi all, sorry I'm late - had a little disagreement with my Java program

12/11/05 21:26:48 Illusion: Yeah its pretty sad, you can be playing a break even game and get the boot only so a losing player can take it

12/11/05 21:27:43 Hollywood: How far did you and the other team members go with disguises?

12/11/05 21:28:33 MIT_Mister_J: well, disguises are tough. They look good on TV or in the movies, but in RL they don't look right when you see them

12/11/05 21:28:34 norm Logs in

12/11/05 21:29:04 landyacht: hi, norm

12/11/05 21:29:06 Boardwalker: Hi Norm

12/11/05 21:29:11 norm: hi folks

12/11/05 21:29:14 MIT_Mister_J: Can you imagine? We tried disguises, but even the best ones looked funny....kind of like even good hair pieces look funny sometimes....

12/11/05 21:29:36 norm: Somebody talking about my hair already

12/11/05 21:29:43 Hollywood: lol

12/11/05 21:29:48 Wolverine: IF you could, what one thing would help a disguise the most? Hair? facial hair? etc...

12/11/05 21:29:57 MIT_Mike Logs in

12/11/05 21:30:05 MIT_Mister_J: hi norm

12/11/05 21:30:12 Illusion: I've seen some good ones myself, female cut and glued indivual pieces of hair to her face and made a beard

12/11/05 21:30:13 Parker: HI, Mike

12/11/05 21:30:20 norm: hi J & Mike

12/11/05 21:30:20 Wolverine: MIT Mike is in the house!

12/11/05 21:30:20 MIT_Mike: Hey everyone

12/11/05 21:30:23 MIT_Mister_J: you know, I think I would have to say the act

12/11/05 21:30:26 MIT_Mister_J: Hey Mike

12/11/05 21:30:30 Viktor: Hey Mike!

12/11/05 21:30:41 Bettie: hey big guy!

12/11/05 21:30:47 Hollywood: I'm told that they can easily detect texture of fake hair even if its human.

12/11/05 21:31:06 MIT_Mister_J: If you look the part and play the part, that is the best "disguise," if you know what I mean

12/11/05 21:31:07 norm: Well if the PB is feeling your hair.....

12/11/05 21:32:26 Illusion: I do a pretty good act of grumpy losing player, let normal gets floor to leave me alone

12/11/05 21:33:46 MIT_Mike: How do you guys handle getting player cards in alias names these days?

12/11/05 21:34:09 Hollywood: I came up with something for myself in AC.

12/11/05 21:34:19 Hollywood: I am a different person in each hotel

12/11/05 21:34:58 MIT_Mike: Do you have to show ID for each property?

12/11/05 21:35:02 norm: I have licenses in no names

12/11/05 21:35:10 Hollywood: only to get the players card

12/11/05 21:35:37 Bettie: norm you don't drive? do you have a state id?

12/11/05 21:36:03 norm: actually i do have a license now. Last time I drove was to AC

12/11/05 21:36:11 Bettie: for our party?

12/11/05 21:36:15 norm: y

12/11/05 21:36:23 Bettie: so honored!

12/11/05 21:36:41 Hollywood: If I get busted in a house, I just shut that down and go back as a new person 6 to 9 months later. It has worked for me.

12/11/05 21:36:41 norm: Rick's wife kept her eyes closed

12/11/05 21:37:30 MIT_Mister_J: Hollywood, how often do you get backed off or shuffled up on (in AC)?

12/11/05 21:38:11 MIT_Mister_J: landyacht, Sun, do you count cards?

12/11/05 21:38:37 Hollywood: Not much recently. I only play blacks, so it's hard. But, I have been doing more hit and run since I play under all these new names

12/11/05 21:39:23 MIT_Mister_J: Where do you play?

12/11/05 21:39:28 Hollywood: Only AC

12/11/05 21:39:37 Wolverine: Hollywood, as "animated" as you are in a casino, how do you manage to get them to "forget" you so quickly?

12/11/05 21:39:56 Hollywood: For one thing I don't beat them over the head

12/11/05 21:40:03 Hollywood: I chip away at them.

12/11/05 21:40:09 MIT_Mister_J: what count system do you use?

12/11/05 21:40:15 MIT_Mister_J: and what is your spread?

12/11/05 21:40:21 Wolverine: at the black level, what do you consider chipping away?

12/11/05 21:40:28 Sun_Runner: MMJ: yes, i count

12/11/05 21:40:30 Hollywood: And, if nothing else I have found that a good act is worth more than anything.

12/11/05 21:40:42 Hollywood: I only play KO exclusively

12/11/05 21:40:51 Hollywood: I spread 1 to XX

12/11/05 21:40:59 MIT_Mister_J: wow. good spread.

12/11/05 21:41:12 MIT_Mister_J: good for you.

12/11/05 21:41:27 Hollywood: Mit, I dont hit any home runs. just alot of singles

12/11/05 21:41:49 Hollywood: Friday night, won $XXX could have taken more.

12/11/05 21:41:58 MIT_Mike: How's the Borgata these days?

12/11/05 21:42:00 Hollywood: like don says, what did u accomplish if u cant go back

12/11/05 21:42:06 MIT_Mister_J: that is the way to do it. the Law of Large Numbers

12/11/05 21:42:28 Hollywood: Borgata are the biggest scumbags in AC

12/11/05 21:42:36 MIT_Mike: Why is that?

12/11/05 21:42:52 Boardwalker: Borgata has a very good game. All 6-deckers with reasonable pen.

12/11/05 21:43:01 Hollywood: They did some bad stuff to me.

12/11/05 21:43:08 MIT_Mister_J: I have never played there. What are the conditions?

12/11/05 21:43:10 Hollywood: they probably have the best game in ac,

12/11/05 21:43:29 MIT_Mike: Cut the shoe in half? Shuffle on you?

12/11/05 21:43:35 Hollywood: every table is 6 decks and penn levels r excellent compared to most of ac

12/11/05 21:43:41 Hollywood: oh much worse then that

12/11/05 21:43:57 MIT_Mike: Really?

12/11/05 21:44:05 Hollywood: I'm siting there one night, and I win big big big

12/11/05 21:44:19 Hollywood: nobody says a word and I leave I was playing in my own name

12/11/05 21:44:23 Boardwalker: Also their comps are very good.

12/11/05 21:44:41 Hollywood: So I wait 2 weeks and call my host. im playing under my own name.

12/11/05 21:45:09 landyacht Logs Out

12/11/05 21:45:27 Hollywood: my host gives me a beautiful suite that i didnt want, but i took it for a friend who was meeting me there with his wife.

12/11/05 21:46:31 Hollywood: Then i go to take my friend and his wife up to the room and they locked me out.

12/11/05 21:46:31 MIT_Mister_J: that is not a good sign

12/11/05 21:46:54 MIT_Mister_J: Ask Mike about the time he got locked out of his room!!!!

12/11/05 21:47:08 Hollywood: we went back at Halloween dressed up and kicked their face in

12/11/05 21:47:51 norm: nothing like revenge against short-sighted people

12/11/05 21:48:41 Hollywood: Mike what happened when they locked u out

12/11/05 21:49:18 Wolverine: Hollywood, what was left in the room and did you ever get it back?

12/11/05 21:49:28 MIT_Mister_J: he and his girlfriend.....funny story

12/11/05 21:49:33 MIT_Mike: Got locked out in XXXX. Casino wanted me to pay for my one week stay in my penthouse suite.

12/11/05 21:49:56 Hollywood: I never went in the room. I had the key card in my pocket. The point was this was all preplanned by them.

12/11/05 21:50:35 MIT_Mike: Luckily "Martinez" and I carded the door, got all our stuff out with the help of our girlfriends and took off. Haven't been back since.

12/11/05 21:50:51 Bettie: MIT_Mike "carded" the door? like "breaking in" carded?

12/11/05 21:51:15 MIT_Mike: Technically it wasn't breaking in since it was my room.

12/11/05 21:51:21 Bettie: right!

12/11/05 21:51:23 MIT_Mister_J: like breaking and entering

12/11/05 21:51:30 MIT_Mister_J: lol

12/11/05 21:51:34 Hollywood: thats hysterical

12/11/05 21:52:07 MIT_Mike: Yah, dodged a $7000 bill.

12/11/05 21:52:29 norm: That's good EV

12/11/05 21:52:30 Hollywood: 7000 bill is like a good win

12/11/05 21:53:00 MIT_Mike: Nothing beats winning and having casino foot your stay.

12/11/05 21:53:11 Hollywood: What would you guys consider the scariest moment for u?

12/11/05 21:53:37 Wolverine: Has to be the bathroom beating someone got in the book....

12/11/05 21:53:37 norm: Meeting Viktor

12/11/05 21:53:43 Viktor: He he.

12/11/05 21:53:52 MIT_Mike: Getting sniffed by drug dogs by customs in the Bahamas.

12/11/05 21:54:07 sidekick Logs in

12/11/05 21:54:10 MIT_Mister_J: we like to kid mike about getting "beat up" in the bathroom. fortunately, it never happened

12/11/05 21:54:30 Wolverine: thank goodness. That was scary for me when I read that!

12/11/05 21:54:35 MIT_Mike: I was young and foolish back then.

12/11/05 21:54:36 Bettie: so, not just an exaggeration, but an outright lie in the book?

12/11/05 21:54:42 Wolverine: Then I hear about backrooms, etc... I almost gave up counting immediately!

12/11/05 21:54:48 norm: Customs can always be scary. BJ or no

12/11/05 21:54:49 Bettie: sidekick there you are!

12/11/05 21:54:52 sidekick: here

12/11/05 21:54:59 sidekick: sorry for being late

12/11/05 21:55:06 Wolverine: take your car to Mexico some day! :0

12/11/05 21:55:08 sidekick: at stanford shopping

12/11/05 21:55:16 Bettie: what did you get me?

12/11/05 21:55:46 Hollywood: Did some of the players respond differently to heat then others?

12/11/05 21:55:48 MIT_Mister_J: anyone ever get sniffed by the fruit dogs?

12/11/05 21:55:55 sidekick: couple of book by Arnold Snyder

12/11/05 21:56:15 MIT_Mister_J: the fruit sniffing dogs are usually little yappy things. they are kind of funny. anyway....

12/11/05 21:56:16 norm: Had problems in XXXX and XXXX. The bad part is if no one speaks English.

12/11/05 21:56:49 MIT_Mister_J: handling heat is an experience thing. there were definitely people on the team that were too paranoid.

12/11/05 21:56:50 Hollywood: I would think the carrying of the cash would be scary when u were being sniffed

12/11/05 21:57:18 MIT_Mike: Yes, especially given that most hundred bills have traces of drugs on them.

12/11/05 21:57:25 norm:

12/11/05 21:57:28 Hollywood: Cash in the US has become a poison as of late

12/11/05 21:57:58 MIT_Mister_J: ...and that was around the time of the zero tolerence drug policy where they could take your stuff on just the thought that it might be drug money

12/11/05 21:58:25 Hollywood: Thats the problem, they would never believe what u r using it for

12/11/05 21:58:31 sidekick: Question-Did your team ever hit Reno or South/North Lake Tahoe?

12/11/05 21:58:49 MIT_Mike: We did hit Tahoe.

12/11/05 21:59:09 MIT_Mike: We were all done by the end of the weekend.

12/11/05 21:59:28 Hollywood: At what point when u guys were doing this, did u feel it was starting to wear u down?

12/11/05 21:59:42 MIT_Mike: Tahoe is so small and the casinos communicate very well there.

12/11/05 21:59:49 sidekick: right

12/11/05 21:59:49 Illusion: back I miss the fun

12/11/05 22:00:03 MIT_Mister_J: For me, I started to wear down when the "new" kids started playing.

12/11/05 22:00:12 Hollywood: Why is that?

12/11/05 22:00:18 MIT_Mister_J: by that, I mean....

12/11/05 22:01:27 MIT_Mike: Not being able to play at all really took the fun out of it. By 1999 I was very burned out.

12/11/05 22:01:30 MIT_Mister_J: ...that they were young, too cocky, and were just a little too much for me. By the time they joined, the money was flowing pretty good and it was almost as if they expected it to happen. No. It happened because all the early people trained the right way and

12/11/05 22:01:33 Wolverine: Mike or MisterJ, how much camo did you use. Sounds like you got burned often.

12/11/05 22:02:10 MIT_Mike: We never used camo.

12/11/05 22:02:17 MIT_Mister_J: They jumped on the gravy train. It was a very different feeling to the team

12/11/05 22:02:20 Hollywood: The new kids sounded arrogant

12/11/05 22:02:35 MIT_Mister_J: in a sense

12/11/05 22:03:00 MIT_Mike: The call-in game was our camo in a sense.

12/11/05 22:03:03 Wolverine: Mike, why not? Too much loss of EV?

12/11/05 22:03:24 MIT_Mister_J: they lost focus of when the older guys got to where they were....which was hard work and discipline. To them, it was easy money.

12/11/05 22:03:49 Cardkountr Logs in

12/11/05 22:03:55 norm: hey ck

12/11/05 22:04:03 Boardwalker: Hi card

12/11/05 22:04:03 MIT_Mike: Your edge is small to begin with, and it can be a slippery slope when you begin using camouflage play.

12/11/05 22:04:09 Cardkountr: Hi Everyone!!

12/11/05 22:04:24 Bettie: Cardkountr i was starting to worry about you! how's it going?

12/11/05 22:04:43 Cardkountr: doing good Bettie

12/11/05 22:05:29 Bettie: MIT_Mike is there a lot of turnover on the MIT Team? How many players average at any one time?

12/11/05 22:05:54 Wolverine: but, as Don S. points out, what good is playing if you can't come back. But maybe the MIT team had a different philosophy: burn the player and then replace them instead.

12/11/05 22:06:06 norm: DD's philosophy is don't use camo, just get kicked out and move on. But that's a lot of moving on.

12/11/05 22:06:13 Wolverine: I haven't cloned myself yet. So I worry about getting burned.

12/11/05 22:06:16 MIT_Mike: During our heyday we averaged about 20 players at any one time.

12/11/05 22:06:41 Illusion: how would some one get in contact with a team? I hear of the odd Hyland team member coming into my area once in a while

12/11/05 22:06:46 MIT_Mike: Although when I first joined the team in 1992 we had a lot of turnover.

12/11/05 22:06:50 Bettie: smaller than i thought - if the Greeks are the WalMart of count teams, you guys would be considered a boutique!

12/11/05 22:07:27 MIT_Mike: The trust factor makes it tough to recruit.

12/11/05 22:07:38 Hollywood: Turning people over when you r in the middle of something like that has to take its toll

12/11/05 22:07:54 Bettie: MIT_Mike I imagined a lot of turnover, esp if you don't use cover. get nailed too many times and you're no use to the team anymore

12/11/05 22:08:07 Wolverine: It is alot like replacing employees, training uses up resources.

12/11/05 22:08:26 MIT_Mister_J: luckily, there was a pretty good technical school close by

12/11/05 22:08:50 Hollywood: Actually, that's a great point. If u turnover alot and there r all new faces, then the camo would not be necessary

12/11/05 22:08:51 MIT_Mister_J: problem was, too many of the students looked like they went to a "pretty good technical school"

12/11/05 22:09:04 MIT_Mike: We had turnover, but not as much as you would think. Fortuntately it took the casinos a while to catch on to the BP call-in game.

12/11/05 22:09:27 Hollywood: If you started up again, what would u do differently?

12/11/05 22:09:41 Sun_Runner: do teams still run out of MIT?

12/11/05 22:09:42 Wolverine: great question Hollywood!

12/11/05 22:10:01 MIT_Mike: That is a good question. One I've thought about.

12/11/05 22:10:09 Parker: Kinda funny, considering Uston had written so much about BP call-in strategy

12/11/05 22:10:14 MIT_Mister_J: Sun, there are still people who play a little bit.

12/11/05 22:10:39 MIT_Mister_J: yeah, parker, nothing was too novel about what we did.

12/11/05 22:11:00 Hollywood: Has the technology changed enough in the past few years (mind play etc) where u would have to do things differently

12/11/05 22:11:11 MIT_Mike: I think the two things I would do differently is 1) look to expand into different strategies 2) Be more vigilant about maintaining a successful team culture

12/11/05 22:11:17 MIT_Mister_J: funny. it just worked. might be that we were younger and didn't look like the "typical" card counter

12/11/05 22:11:41 MIT_Mister_J: well, no mid-shoe entry is a big one

12/11/05 22:11:42 Bettie: MIT_Mike sounds like you would have managed things differently than whoever your mgr was

12/11/05 22:12:06 Cardkountr: Also the casinos didn't sweat the money like they do now

12/11/05 22:12:09 MIT_Mister_J: Mike was one of the managers

12/11/05 22:12:14 MIT_Mike: I was one of the managers. I would have done a couple things differenlty looking back.

12/11/05 22:12:14 norm: Of course thanks to you guys, the "typical card counter" became a young guy. Fine with me

12/11/05 22:12:29 Bettie: oh really?

12/11/05 22:12:38 Parker: Yeah, me too 8)

12/11/05 22:12:41 Boardwalker: Me too

12/11/05 22:12:49 Hollywood: In AC, I don't remember the last time I saw a $100.00 table with mid-shoe

12/11/05 22:13:16 MIT_Mister_J: sorry norm

12/11/05 22:13:31 MIT_Mike: Conditions are definitely tougher now but there's always opportunities. You just have to find them.

12/11/05 22:13:32 Boardwalker: Borgata had $50 tables with mid shoe

12/11/05 22:13:49 Hollywood: Board, not at 100

12/11/05 22:14:20 Boardwalker: Didn't see any

12/11/05 22:14:32 sidekick Logs Out

12/11/05 22:14:55 MIT_Mike: Have you guys done much team play?

12/11/05 22:15:07 Hollywood: i have never done any.

12/11/05 22:15:08 Sun_Runner: None.

12/11/05 22:15:17 Hollywood: One man show

12/11/05 22:15:18 Boardwalker: none

12/11/05 22:15:24 norm: That's like a job.

12/11/05 22:15:30 Parker: I've done a little

12/11/05 22:15:36 Illusion: I'd love too

12/11/05 22:15:39 Wolverine: Don't you think the NMSE is going to phase back out at some point? Too many "losers" sitting and waiting to play, means $$$ the casino can't take from them. Or are they too paranoid. period.

12/11/05 22:15:43 Hollywood: That's actually the reason for me. I don't have the time

12/11/05 22:15:48 Illusion: I've taught a few friend BS and one to count

12/11/05 22:15:50 Parker: Agree - it's too much like a real job

12/11/05 22:16:25 Wolverine: I've taught lots of BS and a few to count.

12/11/05 22:16:33 Hollywood: I do it just to stick it up their _____________

12/11/05 22:16:37 MIT_Mike: It's a different approach. Has its pros and cons but if you want to make money I think the pros outweight the cons.

12/11/05 22:16:43 MIT_Mister_J: IMO, casinos are so transfixed on stopping the one card counter that they lose tons of money that they could be making from the other gmablers

12/11/05 22:17:13 Hollywood: Boy that is so true.

12/11/05 22:17:28 Hollywood: They r obsessive about it

12/11/05 22:17:35 Wolverine: But why? Why stop one when thousands can lose more!?!

12/11/05 22:18:01 Hollywood: It's the mind set

12/11/05 22:18:02 MIT_Mister_J: so true

12/11/05 22:18:08 Wolverine: Aren't the business managers going to figure that out sooner or later?

12/11/05 22:18:12 MIT_Mike: Casino surveillance/floor people have to justify their jobs. That's what it comes down to.

12/11/05 22:18:17 Parker: Nobody ever said that these guys are, well, MIT grads 8)

12/11/05 22:18:25 Wolverine: (just playing Devil's Advocate here) don't roast me!

12/11/05 22:18:27 Hollywood: Its become all corporate.

12/11/05 22:18:35 norm: They need to adopt the supermarket idea. Everyone knows a few people stick things in their pockets. But, no supermarket pats down its customers

12/11/05 22:18:48 Wolverine: Their job is to write down your average bet.

12/11/05 22:18:55 MIT_Mike: Stopping card counters sounds really impressive, even though it's not cost effective.

12/11/05 22:18:58 Wolverine: And make sure that the dealer doesn't do something stupid.

12/11/05 22:19:43 MIT_Mike: The real threat to casinos are inside jobs and cheats.

12/11/05 22:19:48 Cardkountr: all they're concerned with now is increasing quarterly profits which translates into tossing winning players and only allowing losers

12/11/05 22:19:59 MIT_Mister_J: the reason blackjack is the most popular table game is because of card counting. People think they can win, so they play.

12/11/05 22:20:20 Wolverine: Speaking of losers....Paris just changed to NDAS on their double deck games. Since I don't play shoes, I don't know about them.

12/11/05 22:20:23 Bettie: MIT_Mister_J right about that! the number of really bad counters out there is huge!

12/11/05 22:20:23 Wolverine: yuck!

12/11/05 22:20:53 MIT_Mister_J: yeah, people need our Home Training Course box set from your catalog

12/11/05 22:20:55 MIT_Mister_J:

12/11/05 22:20:56 norm: Weak casino people simply lose sight of the symbiotic relationship

12/11/05 22:21:09 MIT_Mike: The true advanage players are a drop in the pocket compared to the squares.

12/11/05 22:21:15 Wolverine: And I think that is why the pendulum has to swing back....if they kill the odds of possibly winning, then they will kill the games!

12/11/05 22:21:21 norm: They get carried away in their role

12/11/05 22:21:49 MIT_Mike: Hopefully you're right and conditions will cycle back in our favor.

12/11/05 22:21:56 Hollywood: They had Card siting in a bathroom a few months back with his feet up for 2 hours lol lol lol

12/11/05 22:22:11 Wolverine: do tell CARD!

12/11/05 22:22:11 norm: free rent

12/11/05 22:22:29 Cardkountr: that was a story i'd like to forget

12/11/05 22:22:30 MIT_Mister_J: Like everything, there will be a time where someone will wonder what they can do to make more money and will relax the rules a bit to get more action, and card counting will be good again.

12/11/05 22:22:44 Hollywood: While they were lookng for him in the casino

12/11/05 22:23:15 Hollywood: Cardcounting is great, but its also a tough living for a person who wants to do what u guys did

12/11/05 22:23:17 Cardkountr: it's funny now but i wasn't too amused when i could hear them on their radios looking for me while i was hiding

12/11/05 22:23:18 Wolverine: How's this scenario....since the poker craze has started, the BJ tables have gotten a lot lighter play (from my personal experience). How do you attract someone back to a game? Not by beating their brains in!

12/11/05 22:23:27 springweatherbj Logs in

12/11/05 22:23:46 norm: i could use a little spring weather

12/11/05 22:24:03 springweatherbj: She is here

12/11/05 22:24:09 MIT_Mike: I wouldn't recommend professional BJ as a full-time profession. Great part-time profession.

12/11/05 22:24:59 Hollywood: I had my first experience with mind play in aruba. that was interesting

12/11/05 22:25:05 Wolverine: MIT guys, anyone ever "turn" on the team and turn in the players to a casino?

12/11/05 22:25:06 MIT_Mister_J: what happened?

12/11/05 22:25:19 MIT_Mister_J: yes, wolfie

12/11/05 22:25:20 Hollywood: I think the arubians purchased it and dont know how to use it

12/11/05 22:25:39 MIT_Mike: Yes, back in 1993 during Strategic Investment.

12/11/05 22:25:51 Wolverine: yeah, the manual doesn't come in popiamento!

12/11/05 22:25:59 Hollywood: lol

12/11/05 22:26:06 MIT_Mister_J: a player sold the list of players to the casinos, supposedly for $10K

12/11/05 22:26:23 Hollywood: really?

12/11/05 22:26:24 Bettie: that's horrible!

12/11/05 22:26:32 Wolverine: what happened to the Benedict Arnold?

12/11/05 22:26:37 norm: You could have sold them a fake list for 20K

12/11/05 22:26:40 Hollywood: That's a stand up guy

12/11/05 22:26:41 MIT_Mister_J: Mike and Martinez were the guys who discovered the fact that the list was sold

12/11/05 22:26:52 MIT_Mike: We never found out who the traitor was.

12/11/05 22:27:09 Hollywood: Anybody know when the movie is coming out?

12/11/05 22:27:12 MIT_Mister_J: Mike, tell them what happened with the casino host calling Martinez down, etc...

12/11/05 22:27:33 MIT_Mister_J: hollywood, i hear summer or fall 2006, but your guess is as good as mine

12/11/05 22:27:43 Hollywood: thank u

12/11/05 22:27:59 MIT_Mister_J: np

12/11/05 22:28:02 Wolverine: Matt Damon in this one too? He plays a card junkie pretty well.

12/11/05 22:28:09 MIT_Mike: XXXXX tried to backroom Martinez and I. That's when we heard that they had list of the members on the team.

12/11/05 22:28:21 Hollywood: wow

12/11/05 22:28:29 Bettie: did they tell you or did you overhear them talking?

12/11/05 22:28:48 MIT_Mike: They let it slip when they were questioning us.

12/11/05 22:28:54 Wolverine: Who has been backroomed? and what happens?

12/11/05 22:29:02 Bettie: how many names did they have?

12/11/05 22:29:15 MIT_Mister_J: Griffin used to scan the MIT yearbook....that is how stupid it got.

12/11/05 22:29:22 MIT_Mister_J: literally....

12/11/05 22:29:23 Illusion: what is the suggested action if you find yourself backroomed

12/11/05 22:29:24 MIT_Mike: About 30

12/11/05 22:29:40 Cardkountr: The casinos are all slime balls. XXXXXX was going to toss me out of my room and deny me the junket transportation back home during a snowstorm with 12" on the ground

12/11/05 22:30:02 MIT_Mister_J: always be polite, but unless they are going to charge you with a crime (which they aren't), they can't hold you

12/11/05 22:30:11 MIT_Mike: I recommend reminding them you have not broken any laws, that you know your rights and that you will sue them.

12/11/05 22:30:16 Bettie: do they really handcuff you to the wall?

12/11/05 22:30:41 Wolverine: what are our rights? Sorry for the beginner's crash course....

12/11/05 22:30:45 MIT_Mike: A member of our team was handcuffed at XXXXX in 1993.

12/11/05 22:30:53 MIT_Mister_J: in fact, if they hold you against your will, that is against the law.

12/11/05 22:30:55 Sun_Runner: TO THE WALL??

12/11/05 22:31:00 Hollywood: When you guys worked a particular casino, how long did u frequent the same place before you felt it was time to move on?

12/11/05 22:31:08 norm: Wolverine, good question. We should have an outline

12/11/05 22:31:11 MIT_Mike: You can not be detained for counting cards...period.

12/11/05 22:31:17 Bettie: i've never been backroomed anywhere, or barred, or backed off, so it's all kind of scary to me!

12/11/05 22:31:23 Wolverine: in AC or LV? right?

12/11/05 22:31:30 norm: Macy's used to handcuff suspected shoplifters to the wall. That stopped with a suit.

12/11/05 22:31:38 MIT_Mike: Not to the wall fortunately, but he was held for several hours.

12/11/05 22:31:44 MIT_Mister_J: Card counting in legal in the US. In Vegas, they can ask you to leave the casino since it is private property. In AC, they can't do that, but will do other things.

12/11/05 22:31:53 Cardkountr: True MIT Mike but they can try to make up an unrelated reason to backroom you

12/11/05 22:31:59 MIT_Mike: In AC they can't even kick you out.

12/11/05 22:32:21 MIT_Mike: That's true. Be sure not to have any fake ID on you.

12/11/05 22:32:21 Hollywood: All they do to me is harass me

12/11/05 22:32:52 Sun_Runner: what about a fake players card?

12/11/05 22:33:00 Hollywood: I could not agree more. always be polite. they want u to get agressive

12/11/05 22:33:01 Cardkountr: no problem

12/11/05 22:33:14 Wolverine: define aggressive...sorry.

12/11/05 22:33:14 Hollywood: if u get agressive then u have a new problem

12/11/05 22:33:22 MIT_Mike: I doubt you can get in trouble for player cards.

12/11/05 22:33:39 MIT_Mister_J: If a casino holds you on a trumped up charge, they are taking a risk that could back fire on them. You likely have grounds to sue

12/11/05 22:33:40 Bettie: as long as your id doesn't say something else

12/11/05 22:34:01 norm: A suit against a casino in Nevada?

12/11/05 22:34:12 Hollywood: Aggressive in this case is starting to curse and say what the hell r u talking about etc. If they r coming at u, they already know. they have the films. so what r u trying to change

12/11/05 22:34:22 Sun_Runner: how do you explain the fake players card then?

12/11/05 22:34:43 Hollywood: I have never been searched.

12/11/05 22:34:51 MIT_Mister_J: If security ever asks you to go somewhere or asks for you ID, just so a simple "No"

12/11/05 22:34:54 Hollywood: but I have a story that beats it all.

12/11/05 22:34:58 MIT_Mike: Given Grosjean's recent law suits, casinos in Vegas at least, are going to be very careful now about mistreating card counters.

12/11/05 22:35:10 MIT_Mister_J: You don't have to give them your ID or go somewhere you don't want.

12/11/05 22:35:11 Cardkountr: nothing to explain.....i've been caught with them many times, they just take them from me

12/11/05 22:35:21 norm: casinos have short memories. But, I hope you're right

12/11/05 22:35:30 Bettie: maybe, but remember he wasn't being called a card counter - he was holecarding

12/11/05 22:35:30 Dr_Pain Logs in

12/11/05 22:35:44 norm: pain has arrived

12/11/05 22:35:53 MIT_Mike: Playing under an alias name is not a crime.

12/11/05 22:36:06 norm: players card may be a contract violation

12/11/05 22:36:06 Dr_Pain: Good evening fellow players

12/11/05 22:36:13 MIT_Mister_J: hello pain

12/11/05 22:36:21 Dr_Pain: Hey J

12/11/05 22:36:25 Dr_Pain: hello Mike

12/11/05 22:36:30 norm: reminds me i have to make a dentist appointment

12/11/05 22:36:31 MIT_Mike: Hey

12/11/05 22:36:45 Sun_Runner: is it not obvious you used fake id to obtain the card?

12/11/05 22:36:57 Illusion: I've been asked to leave because I refused to show i.d. and it seemed like they were saying we know what your doing and your not welcome

12/11/05 22:37:07 Cardkountr: not necessarily.....there's many ways to get a players card

12/11/05 22:37:15 Sun_Runner: like?

12/11/05 22:37:39 Hollywood: Anonimity is not a crime, as long as u r not doing it to defraud anyone

12/11/05 22:37:54 norm: even if you signed something it would be weak. no one reads such agreements

12/11/05 22:37:55 Hollywood: just get a phoney drivers lic

12/11/05 22:38:03 MIT_Mister_J: You shouldn't really worry about counting cards from a security perspective. There is nothing illegal about it. Just stay calm, know your rights, and don't leave the casino floor. Your goal should be to make this as quick a confrontation as possible

12/11/05 22:38:12 MIT_Mister_J: and then leave

12/11/05 22:38:19 Hollywood: then u present it at the cage and they give u a card. by customer relations

12/11/05 22:38:25 Dr_Pain: Not like me

12/11/05 22:38:59 MIT_Mike: Speaking of... how's your lawsuit going?

12/11/05 22:39:04 Hollywood: Sun, players cards r easy to obtain

12/11/05 22:39:12 Dr_Pain: it is still going on

12/11/05 22:39:18 Cardkountr: you can usually get a players card from the pit and without showing an id depending on your story

12/11/05 22:39:32 MIT_Mike: The wheels of justice do move slowly.

12/11/05 22:39:41 Cardkountr: or you can get them from friends, relatives, hell buy one if need be

12/11/05 22:39:51 Dr_Pain: The 2 owners of XXXXX tried to get themselves removed from the case

12/11/05 22:39:54 Hollywood: Card, I never liked getting them in the pit. I prefer getting them the old fashioned way. with a bullshit drivers lic.

12/11/05 22:40:10 Sun_Runner: what is going on w/ griffin these days?

12/11/05 22:40:12 Cardkountr: that's the easiest way

12/11/05 22:40:19 MIT_Mike: Did they fail or is it still pending.

12/11/05 22:40:21 Dr_Pain: saying that they were not responsible for the workers actions

12/11/05 22:40:39 Dr_Pain: that they were just stockholders

12/11/05 22:40:45 MIT_Mister_J: wow...that can't fly, can it?

12/11/05 22:40:57 Dr_Pain: Judge denied their motion

12/11/05 22:41:02 Illusion: I've gotten one in a fake name with my real id, just told the person I don't go by my frist name.. wait till you get a mailer and phone them saying the last name was wrong there must have been some kind of mix up

12/11/05 22:41:05 MIT_Mike: Nice

12/11/05 22:41:16 MIT_Mister_J: i would think so. There is a ton of case law that says otherwise

12/11/05 22:41:28 Illusion: you can always find one in a slot machine

12/11/05 22:41:34 Dr_Pain: they will be paying for my case ending party

12/11/05 22:41:41 norm:

12/11/05 22:41:44 MIT_Mister_J:

12/11/05 22:42:11 Cardkountr: be careful of picking one out of slot machines illusion....you have no idea the gender, age etc

12/11/05 22:42:21 MIT_Mike: Sounds like fun. Definitely reason to celebrate.

12/11/05 22:42:22 Dr_Pain: hey card

12/11/05 22:42:29 Dr_Pain: didn't see you here

12/11/05 22:42:30 Cardkountr: Hi Dr

12/11/05 22:42:43 Dr_Pain: you were quiet

12/11/05 22:42:53 Cardkountr: I'm hiding

12/11/05 22:43:09 Dr_Pain: if you could really do that in a casino

12/11/05 22:43:12 Hollywood: i thought u only did that in bathrooms card

12/11/05 22:43:19 Dr_Pain: your problems would be over

12/11/05 22:43:25 springweatherbj Logs Out

12/11/05 22:43:27 MIT_Mike: If you can't finagle a floor person to get you a player card, getting a friend or relative to get you one is probably your best bet.

12/11/05 22:43:28 Parker: Nobody will ever look for you here 8)

12/11/05 22:43:48 Dr_Pain: you are very safe in this room

12/11/05 22:43:53 Dr_Pain:

12/11/05 22:44:05 Hollywood: One time I had to meet card in a casino and he dyed his hair and looked so diff. that i didnt know it was him until he followed me into the bathroom lol lol lol

12/11/05 22:44:33 Cardkountr: I even stood next to you Hollywood

12/11/05 22:45:06 Parker: I get nervous when someone follows me into the bathroom

12/11/05 22:45:12 Hollywood: lol

12/11/05 22:45:28 norm: Well, tell Stalker to stop it

12/11/05 22:45:30 Wolverine: MIT guys, how long would you wait to return to the same shift after getting a back off with a new name?

12/11/05 22:46:36 Viktor: norm

12/11/05 22:46:39 MIT_Mike: It depends. 6-8 months is a good rule of thumb.

12/11/05 22:46:59 Hollywood: Thats exactly how long i wait after i've been busted

12/11/05 22:47:25 Wolverine: When you get burned, who knows? Casino and shift managers for sure, but floor supers? dealers?

12/11/05 22:47:48 Cardkountr: it also depends on how well known you were to the pit crew

12/11/05 22:48:13 Cardkountr: if you were a regular it could take years for them to forget if ever

12/11/05 22:48:17 MIT_Mike: Not dealers.

12/11/05 22:48:46 Wolverine: So, the floor would have to "discover" you, or I guess the eye.

12/11/05 22:48:48 Hollywood: i agree card

12/11/05 22:49:21 Cardkountr: i'm amazed at the memory of some of the pit bosses and shift managers

12/11/05 22:49:26 Hollywood: there were places that busted me that i would never go back to

12/11/05 22:49:43 norm: Salespeople in general have amazing memories.

12/11/05 22:49:54 Illusion: some people are just good with faces

12/11/05 22:50:17 Wolverine: But if they can't put a "name" with that face, you may look familiar, but they won't really "know" you.

12/11/05 22:50:20 Hollywood: Also, in the blackchip arena. When they have furnished u with big big items and serious money in comps. They know exactly who u r.

12/11/05 22:50:30 Wolverine: they will BS like they know you from way back though!

12/11/05 22:50:47 Cardkountr: and today's technology makes it even worse.....some pit critters carry pocket pc's loaded with pictures of the "undesirables"

12/11/05 22:51:08 norm: I have difficulty believing that's effective

12/11/05 22:51:24 Wolverine: Its an electronic mug book. :-)

12/11/05 22:51:34 norm: People look the same as other people and people themselves look different.

12/11/05 22:51:53 Wolverine: I get told I look like someone else every time I sit down.

12/11/05 22:52:03 Hollywood: Thats why I like my system of being a diff person in each place. If I get busted. That person is gone and the id is shut down and they can run with the name all they want. A new person emerges

12/11/05 22:52:13 MIT_Mike: Despite today's technology, good old human recognition is what gets you.

12/11/05 22:52:32 Hollywood: I agree

12/11/05 22:52:37 Cardkountr: yep

12/11/05 22:52:53 Wolverine: Isn't amazing, how many billion people are on this planet now and most of us look completely different and we can recognize someone.... cool!

12/11/05 22:53:01 Hollywood: And don't forget, they don't have to bust u. they need only suspect u. The films never lie

12/11/05 22:53:04 norm: Yes. And salespeople look at your watch and shoes. They make a general image, not just face

12/11/05 22:53:11 Parker: I fear a savvy pb with 20 yr experience a lot more than something like MindPlay

12/11/05 22:53:18 Hollywood: So u have to stop them from suspecting u

12/11/05 22:53:33 Wolverine: blend in.

12/11/05 22:53:35 MIT_Mike: MindPlay is very overrated.

12/11/05 22:54:08 Illusion: I am more afraid of the ones that will stand there watching your play and count you down live

12/11/05 22:54:18 norm: MP is so expensive, they need to give higher penetration to make up for the cost. I think it will die.

12/11/05 22:54:26 Hollywood: Mit Mike that is an interesting observation. Cause when I played on it in Aruba. I played for 2 hours and beat them for about 3 thousand. and nobody blinked

12/11/05 22:55:01 Wolverine: Why---Illusion? Drop a few funny bets in there to throw it off....just parlay up and down a little, right?

12/11/05 22:55:03 MIT_Mike: They use MindPlay in Aruba?

12/11/05 22:55:34 Hollywood: im an aruba regular. They had mind play there last year at marriot

12/11/05 22:55:43 Wolverine: They use MindPlay at Fort McDowell in Scottsale, AZ.

12/11/05 22:56:07 Illusion: Wolverine its how I was shut down my 1st time.. I tried to get them off the scent but the next trip they didn't buy it

12/11/05 22:56:28 MIT_Mike: How are the games in Aruba? Haven't been there in about 10 years.

12/11/05 22:57:07 Hollywood: Excellent games throughout the island. from 2 to 6 decks. all shoe games

12/11/05 22:57:28 MIT_Mike: Stand soft 17?

12/11/05 22:57:40 Hollywood: yes

12/11/05 22:57:55 Boardwalker: How are comps?

12/11/05 22:58:00 Cardkountr: Mister J, do you still get around AC?

12/11/05 22:58:52 Hollywood: Nothing to brag about. They will comp u out, but they want a lot of time and big bettor. And its at the big tables that they watch very closly. it doesn't pay anymore. u r better off paying your pay and moving around and kicking them in the head

12/11/05 22:58:53 MIT_Mister_J: I used to go a lot, but not much anymore. I haven't been there in many, many years

12/11/05 22:59:14 Hollywood: thre r many more casinos now

12/11/05 22:59:30 Hollywood: More then AC

12/11/05 22:59:50 norm: Just looked at Bally's site and can't even find a mention of MindPlay.

12/11/05 23:00:24 Hollywood: Norm, did anyone say bally's had mindplay?

12/11/05 23:00:42 norm: Used to. They made a big deal out of it

12/11/05 23:01:02 Viktor: Hollywood, you like basketball, right?

12/11/05 23:01:04 Hollywood: really? wow i never saw one except in aruba

12/11/05 23:01:15 Hollywood: I better, i own season tickets lol

12/11/05 23:01:44 Viktor: We went to party last night at the Palms' "Hardwood Suite," which is a two level hotel room with a half-court basketball court, in the room.

12/11/05 23:02:02 Bettie: hey gang, since this is evolving away from our guests, can we get any last MIT Team questions so these guys can get some beauty sleep?

12/11/05 23:02:15 Hollywood: wow vic

12/11/05 23:02:25 Viktor: Including a scoreboard (full sized), timer and buzzer.

12/11/05 23:02:30 Hollywood: i have a full court at my home

12/11/05 23:02:35 Viktor: This is where you need to stay if you ever come to Vegas.

12/11/05 23:02:37 Hollywood: that i dont have

12/11/05 23:02:41 Dr_Pain: Good night all

12/11/05 23:02:48 Bettie: by doc - see ya later!

12/11/05 23:02:51 MIT_Mister_J: good night Dr. O

12/11/05 23:02:59 Cardkountr: Seeya Doc

12/11/05 23:03:11 Dr_Pain: Happy Holidays all

12/11/05 23:03:15 MIT_Mister_J: O=P

12/11/05 23:03:16 Hollywood: by doc

12/11/05 23:03:21 Dr_Pain Logs Out

12/11/05 23:03:22 Illusion: night

12/11/05 23:04:54 Hollywood: Mit mike Mit Mister J. Thank u for everything. I got much out of this one. I cant tell u guys how much i appreciat it.

12/11/05 23:04:57 Hollywood: good night all

12/11/05 23:05:08 Bettie: bye hollywood - i'll talk to you tomorrow

12/11/05 23:05:10 Wolverine: goodnight Hollywood.

12/11/05 23:05:10 MIT_Mister_J: good night holloywood - I enjoyed it!

12/11/05 23:05:13 Cardkountr: Seeya Hollywood

12/11/05 23:05:15 Hollywood: ok bettie

12/11/05 23:05:15 MIT_Mike: It was our pleasure

12/11/05 23:05:32 Hollywood: thanks everyone.

12/11/05 23:05:40 Hollywood Logs Out

12/11/05 23:06:02 Boardwalker: Good night

12/11/05 23:06:24 Bettie: bye boardwalker - thanks for coming!

12/11/05 23:07:00 MIT_Mister_J: bye boardwalker,

12/11/05 23:07:02 Boardwalker Logs Out

12/11/05 23:07:21 MIT_Mister_J: thank you everyone. Bettie, Viktor, everyone.

12/11/05 23:07:43 Bettie: thanks much, Mr. J; you're always welcome to stop by.

12/11/05 23:08:05 MIT_Mister_J: I had a great time. I look forward to chatting with everyone again sometime.

12/11/05 23:08:13 Wolverine: Thanks MIT guys. We appreciate your help in fighting the fight.

12/11/05 23:08:14 Cardkountr: ok got some questions for Mister J and Mike

12/11/05 23:08:22 MIT_Mister_J: ok.

12/11/05 23:08:25 MIT_Mike: Yes

12/11/05 23:08:35 norm: well this is odd. Mindplay was bought by alliance gaming in 2004 and put in their Bally's sub. I can find no mention at all of MP on Bally's site. But I'm sure I've seen it in the past.

12/11/05 23:08:48 Cardkountr: do you think part of the teams downfall was because they were paid hourly instead of a percentage?

12/11/05 23:09:07 MIT_Mike: You're right Norm. I have seen Ballys uses MindPlay.\

12/11/05 23:09:36 MIT_Mike: Players were not paid on a hourly basis.

12/11/05 23:09:50 norm: Bally's Gaming, Not Bally's casino

12/11/05 23:09:53 MIT_Mister_J: we weren't paid by the hour

12/11/05 23:10:09 MIT_Mike: Players were paid based on expected value.

12/11/05 23:10:44 MIT_Mike: Player pay structure was not a problem on the team.

12/11/05 23:10:58 Wolverine: How were the "spotters" that played BS paid? I forgot. Details.

12/11/05 23:11:00 norm: not paid on performace

12/11/05 23:11:22 Cardkountr: wouldn't being paid on EV cause some to overbet?

12/11/05 23:11:32 Sun_Runner: adios fellas< got to go!

12/11/05 23:11:37 MIT_Mike: Spotters were paid a share of the EV that helped generate.

12/11/05 23:11:40 norm: night sr

12/11/05 23:11:42 Sun_Runner Logs Out

12/11/05 23:11:43 Bettie: bye sun - thanks for coming!

12/11/05 23:12:09 Bettie: MIT_Mike than what might you attribute to the "downfall" of the team, if anything?

12/11/05 23:12:27 Wolverine: So they put in 1 hour of play (table min), and keep any profits? And then a cut of the BPs killing?

12/11/05 23:12:33 MIT_Mike: Trust was paramount. Whether it was an issue of stealing or misreporting your play.

12/11/05 23:13:18 norm: or not playing to plan or 'gambling.' Trust must be a huge issue

12/11/05 23:13:34 MIT_Mike: The team split up because the new players on the team were in it more for the comps, and the casinos caught on to our approach over time.

12/11/05 23:14:05 MIT_Mike: There's no business quite like a professional blacjkjack team.

12/11/05 23:14:25 MIT_Mike: There's no way to verify. A BP could win 50k and report losing 50k.

12/11/05 23:14:32 norm: Seems to me once the glitter fades, sheer boredom must set in considering from whom you selected players

12/11/05 23:14:42 Wolverine: Okay, I've killed 2 wonderful hours here. Thanks again to the MIT guys.

12/11/05 23:14:48 Bettie: bye!

12/11/05 23:14:53 MIT_Mister_J: bye wolfie

12/11/05 23:14:55 Illusion: night Wolverine

12/11/05 23:14:58 MIT_Mike: Good nighit

12/11/05 23:15:04 Cardkountr: night wolverine

12/11/05 23:15:12 Parker: bye

12/11/05 23:15:38 MIT_Mike: The amount that we wagered and the comps we received helped in terms of potential boredom.

12/11/05 23:15:44 Wolverine Logs Out

12/11/05 23:15:44 norm: true

12/11/05 23:16:01 Cardkountr: it would be easy for a player to win 20k and report it as 7K

12/11/05 23:16:21 MIT_Mike: Very easy

12/11/05 23:16:25 Bettie: i can't imagine! i would never lie like that to people who trusted me with their money

12/11/05 23:16:29 Illusion: drive the best cars, stay in the nicest rooms, eat at the best resturants... live like a king

12/11/05 23:16:56 norm: well, that's the good side

12/11/05 23:17:05 Cardkountr: the only way to safeguard it is to have other unknown employees to spot check the tables

12/11/05 23:17:29 Illusion: I'd be happy with that medical coverage and a pension

12/11/05 23:17:30 MIT_Mike: It was fun. Looking back even all the cat & mouse stuff with the casinos was fun. Much easier said now.

12/11/05 23:17:36 norm: True, but then your paranoia is raised by being watched by both sides

12/11/05 23:17:49 MIT_Mister_J: for SI, anyone could join. but on the later teams, the people who played were those you trusted, not random people

12/11/05 23:18:02 norm: night mike

12/11/05 23:18:10 MIT_Mike: Good night norm

12/11/05 23:18:11 MIT_Mister_J: g'night norm

12/11/05 23:18:17 Bettie: bye norm!

12/11/05 23:18:18 Illusion: bye

12/11/05 23:18:23 Cardkountr: Night Norm

12/11/05 23:18:32 norm Logs Out

12/11/05 23:19:09 Bettie: thanks to all and good night to all! appreciate your time, Mike and J. you all feel free to hang out, but I have some prep work for the coming week to do.

12/11/05 23:19:21 Bettie Logs Out

12/11/05 23:19:23 Cardkountr: people only see the glamor but it gets really tough when you do it all the time.....it's like living in a vacuum

12/11/05 23:20:06 MIT_Mike: True. Best part-time job in the world though, in my opinion.

12/11/05 23:20:14 Cardkountr: yes that's for sure

12/11/05 23:20:24 Illusion: yeah, ten hours or more at the tables every day would kill the fun in it

12/11/05 23:20:35 Cardkountr: especially when you don't have to hit them hard everytime you play

12/11/05 23:20:53 MIT_Mister_J: Well, I have to get up early tomorrow, so good night everyone.

12/11/05 23:21:02 MIT_Mister_J: It was a pleasure

12/11/05 23:21:03 Illusion: good night

12/11/05 23:21:04 MIT_Mike: Alright, I'm going to call it a night. It was great talking with you guys. Hope to catch up with you guys later.

12/11/05 23:21:04 Cardkountr: Night Mister J

12/11/05 23:21:14 Cardkountr: Seeya Mike

12/11/05 23:21:16 MIT_Mike: Good night.

12/11/05 23:21:17 MIT_Mister_J: Good night all

12/11/05 23:21:17 Parker: Good night and thanks for hosting

12/11/05 23:21:23 Illusion: bye mike and J

12/11/05 23:21:30 MIT_Mister_J Logs Out

12/11/05 23:21:35 Viktor: Damn...

12/11/05 23:21:37 Viktor: missed him.

12/11/05 23:21:42 MIT_Mike Logs Out

12/11/05 23:22:05 Viktor: OK, well that went well! See ya guys later.

12/11/05 23:22:11 Illusion: well I am gone to get going too later

12/11/05 23:22:17 Viktor Logs Out

12/11/05 23:22:19 Illusion Logs Out