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Thread: bjplayer21: wynn wants Social # for $3000 buy in

  1. #1
    bjplayer21
    Guest

    bjplayer21: wynn wants Social # for $3000 buy in

    ok, so i found out that Wynn resort demands you give your social security number and address to them for thier "own" files (not the IRS) they say, when your cumulative buy in reaches a lousy $3000. I dont understand why such a high roller joint as this place suggests it is would be so concerned about making players give their social security number when you are playing table games and reach a cumulative $3000 buy in--that is such a low amount to be concerned with. i haven't encountered this anywhere else. it makes no sense---where has the anonymity factor of vegas gone? makes you not want to give Wynn business again.

  2. #2
    young gun
    Guest

    young gun: Re: wynn wants Social # for $3000 buy in

    i agree it is bullshit. There are other places that will request your SSN well before 10k. MGM casinos often ask for it at around 6k, but you can refuse and they will let you keep playing. At wynn, they are more demanding of it and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they refused your action if you refused to provide it. I don't understand either why they feel the need to go above and beyond what the government asks of them.

  3. #3
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Tell them to shove it!

    > ok, so i found out that Wynn resort demands you give
    > your social security number and address to them for
    > their "own" files (not the IRS) they say,
    > when your cumulative buy in reaches a lousy $3000. I
    > don't understand why such a high roller joint as this
    > place suggests it is would be so concerned about
    > making players give their social security number when
    > you are playing table games and reach a cumulative
    > $3000 buy in--that is such a low amount to be
    > concerned with. i haven't encountered this anywhere
    > else. it makes no sense---where has the anonymity
    > factor of vegas gone? makes you not want to give Wynn
    > business again.

    Too many players are ******* when it comes to this. Playing at Wynn is no better than playing at a dozen other Strip casinos, where they don't hassle things like this. I would tell -- and have told! -- them to shove their private files up their ass, and that, if they wanted my further action, they'd get my SSN when the law [i]required
    Bottom line: they're going to keep doing this until every last one of their high-end players tells them to shove their private files. Then, we would see how important it really was for them to have the SSN at the $3,000 mark. But, as with everything else, since not enough players are vocal about it, they continue their bullying ways.

    I hope their stock goes to zero, and that Wynn goes bankrupt, as Adelson seems to be doing. They deserve each other.

    Don

  4. #4
    Aruuba
    Guest

    Aruuba: Re: Tell them to shove it!

    > Too many players are ******* when it comes to this.
    > Playing at Wynn is no better than playing at a dozen
    > other Strip casinos, where they don't hassle things
    > like this. I would tell -- and have told! -- them to
    > shove their private files up their ass, and that, if
    > they wanted my further action, they'd get my SSN when
    > the law required Bottom line: they're going to keep
    > doing this until every last one of their high-end
    > players tells them to shove their private files. Then,
    > we would see how important it really was for them to
    > have the SSN at the $3,000 mark. But, as with
    > everything else, since not enough players are vocal
    > about it, they continue their bullying ways.

    > I hope their stock goes to zero, and that Wynn goes
    > bankrupt, as Adelson seems to be doing. They deserve
    > each other.

    > Don

    I wish I knew what the limits were. But I have read casinos are now required to ask for ID at the $3k level and keep that report for 5 years. Maybe around July-Aug 2007 in some amendment?

    Maybe
    9.5.5.3.3.2.2
    Records to be Retained by Financial Institutions

    Title 31 CFR 103.36

    "...For each person that a casino knows who has bought in at, bet, or purchased chips, tokens, or plaques over $3,000, with one or more currency transactions in a single casino day, the record shall include the name, permanent address, SSN, or TIN of the person, and the currency amount and the casino license number of the casino employee preparing the record.

    For each person that a casino knows has purchased or redeemed slot machine tokens of $3,000 or more, through one or more currency transactions in a single gaming day. The record shall include the name, permanent address, casino account number, SSN, or TIN of the person, the date, time, and currency amount involved, and the casino license number of the employee preparing the record. .."

    Probably not this simple though - does anyone know if this maybe tightened up a previously much "greyer" area?

    Although, even if it were to turn out to be the "law", I guess all it would change is who you get mad at?


  5. #5
    GMan
    Guest

    GMan: No wonder Vegas is dying ! *NM*


  6. #6
    jblaze
    Guest

    jblaze: Re: Tell them to shove it!

    What if you just give them a wrong SSN? Do they actually check it against anything? I got the dumbest story for why they needed it when I asked. But that was at 5k. Has it recently dropped to 3k?

  7. #7
    Aruuba
    Guest

    Aruuba: Re: Tell them to shove it!

    > What if you just give them a wrong SSN? Do they
    > actually check it against anything? I got the dumbest
    > story for why they needed it when I asked. But that
    > was at 5k. Has it recently dropped to 3k?

    I have no idea. From what I posted before it seemed like they also had to get name and address too. And put down their employee number or something so they know who took the info. It makes it sound they're gonna want to see some valid ID at the least.

    I don't even know if what I quoted even applies - it just seemed that it might.

    I don't know how they validate, or even if, a SS#. Maybe they do have access to some database?

    When a friend hit for over $1200 on a slot, I don't think they had a SS card on him but he ended up with a W-2 form.
    Maybe they call your bank? I don't know. I don't even know what the heck is required or not - whether they must ask by law now and have no discretion or something else. Who knows - the casinos may not be thrilled about having that burden placed upon them either. They probably don't want to have to risk the possible negative reaction of their high-rollers.

    Maybe you play the game and buy-in for $2900 now and everyone is happy?

    That's what I would like to find out, or at least get a consensus on perhaps. It just seems like maybe something changed in July 2007 with the passage of this amendment compared to before that. Nobody seems to have a very clear idea on the subject I guess. Perhaps because it never actually is as simple as it may seem on the surface.

    I don't really see the big deal - I don't think you could walk into a bank with $3K cash and ask for a cashier's check and expect to get one unless they know who you are.
    Maybe even a money order at a post office.

    What story did they give you, if you can share? Maybe they just don't want to say they have to ask for it and scare you that the gov't will find out. It seems like if that's all you do, they just keep in their records for 5 years because that's what they are required to do?

    It's all so arcane and inscrutable to me. Like laws have to make sense or something.

    Anybody here make an initial buy-in for $3K or more and not get asked might be another way of approaching it?

  8. #8
    THE PLAYER
    Guest

    THE PLAYER: my personal update for these things

    > I have no idea. From what I posted before it seemed
    > like they also had to get name and address too. And
    > put down their employee number or something so they
    > know who took the info. It makes it sound they're
    > gonna want to see some valid ID at the least.

    > I don't even know if what I quoted even applies - it
    > just seemed that it might.

    > I don't know how they validate, or even if, a SS#.
    > Maybe they do have access to some database?

    > When a friend hit for over $1200 on a slot, I don't
    > think they had a SS card on him but he ended up with a
    > W-2 form.
    > Maybe they call your bank? I don't know. I don't even
    > know what the heck is required or not - whether they
    > must ask by law now and have no discretion or
    > something else. Who knows - the casinos may not be
    > thrilled about having that burden placed upon them
    > either. They probably don't want to have to risk the
    > possible negative reaction of their high-rollers.

    > Maybe you play the game and buy-in for $2900 now and
    > everyone is happy?

    > That's what I would like to find out, or at least get
    > a consensus on perhaps. It just seems like maybe
    > something changed in July 2007 with the passage of
    > this amendment compared to before that. Nobody seems
    > to have a very clear idea on the subject I guess.
    > Perhaps because it never actually is as simple as it
    > may seem on the surface.

    > I don't really see the big deal - I don't think you
    > could walk into a bank with $3K cash and ask for a
    > cashier's check and expect to get one unless they know
    > who you are.
    > Maybe even a money order at a post office.

    > What story did they give you, if you can share? Maybe
    > they just don't want to say they have to ask for it
    > and scare you that the gov't will find out. It seems
    > like if that's all you do, they just keep in their
    > records for 5 years because that's what they are
    > required to do?

    > It's all so arcane and inscrutable to me. Like laws
    > have to make sense or something.

    > Anybody here make an initial buy-in for $3K or more
    > and not get asked might be another way of approaching
    > it?

    My personal update for these things is: In Vegas the "total reward card" is a very common thing, you once receive it at the big casinos, by showing your ID card.
    This card you can show in the big casinos, which take part at the programm, and you will receive your chips. This card is also in use at the pokerroom, when you buy in for tournaments. So if you are in posession of a total reward card, they will give you chips at any game they offer.
    If you need some casino chips very fast, just sit down at the cash games in the pokerroom, here you can change your dollars into chips.

  9. #9
    bjplayer21
    Guest

    bjplayer21: Re: Tell them to shove it!

    according to the IRS section on gambling winnings reported,

    (income code 28) " Most gambling winnings are subject to reporting on Form 1042-S. However, proceeds from a wager placed in blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel are not amounts subject to reporting".

    so, blackjack winnings are not a legal requirement for reporting for tax purposes, so now that i think about it, what is the big deal about supplying your social? i dont think there is any big concern as i figure that all the high rollers at wynn or wherever have given theirs already anyway. any thoughts?

    > I have no idea. From what I posted before it seemed
    > like they also had to get name and address too. And
    > put down their employee number or something so they
    > know who took the info. It makes it sound they're
    > gonna want to see some valid ID at the least.

    > I don't even know if what I quoted even applies - it
    > just seemed that it might.

    > I don't know how they validate, or even if, a SS#.
    > Maybe they do have access to some database?

    > When a friend hit for over $1200 on a slot, I don't
    > think they had a SS card on him but he ended up with a
    > W-2 form.
    > Maybe they call your bank? I don't know. I don't even
    > know what the heck is required or not - whether they
    > must ask by law now and have no discretion or
    > something else. Who knows - the casinos may not be
    > thrilled about having that burden placed upon them
    > either. They probably don't want to have to risk the
    > possible negative reaction of their high-rollers.

    > Maybe you play the game and buy-in for $2900 now and
    > everyone is happy?

    > That's what I would like to find out, or at least get
    > a consensus on perhaps. It just seems like maybe
    > something changed in July 2007 with the passage of
    > this amendment compared to before that. Nobody seems
    > to have a very clear idea on the subject I guess.
    > Perhaps because it never actually is as simple as it
    > may seem on the surface.

    > I don't really see the big deal - I don't think you
    > could walk into a bank with $3K cash and ask for a
    > cashier's check and expect to get one unless they know
    > who you are.
    > Maybe even a money order at a post office.

    > What story did they give you, if you can share? Maybe
    > they just don't want to say they have to ask for it
    > and scare you that the gov't will find out. It seems
    > like if that's all you do, they just keep in their
    > records for 5 years because that's what they are
    > required to do?

    > It's all so arcane and inscrutable to me. Like laws
    > have to make sense or something.

    > Anybody here make an initial buy-in for $3K or more
    > and not get asked might be another way of approaching
    > it?

  10. #10
    Aruuba
    Guest

    Aruuba: Re: Tell them to shove it!

    > according to the IRS section on gambling winnings
    > reported,

    > (income code 28) " Most gambling winnings are
    > subject to reporting on Form 1042-S. However, proceeds
    > from a wager placed in blackjack, baccarat, craps,
    > roulette, or big-6 wheel are not amounts subject to
    > reporting".

    > so, blackjack winnings are not a legal requirement for
    > reporting for tax purposes, so now that i think about
    > it, what is the big deal about supplying your social?
    > i dont think there is any big concern as i figure that
    > all the high rollers at wynn or wherever have given
    > theirs already anyway. any thoughts?

    I think that section is for non-resident aliens seeking an exemption from having tax withheld from winnings becasue they don't live here.

    Not sure what you mean by "reporting" but, let's face it, any income from whatsoever source derived is taxable. Whether the casino has to report it to the gov't or not is another story.

    I don't see the big deal about supplying social #. Especially when, it seems to me anyway, it's legally required by the casino to do so.

    Actually, I think, legally, any winning hand of BJ would constitute taxable income. You win 10 hands, you lose 10 hands, your net winnings are zero but you have $10 of taxable income.

    Just like if you put $1 in and hit for $1200 and get your W-2G. Your income is $1200, even though you are only $1199 ahead.

    But, trust me, I know absolutely nothing about taxes.

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