Autoground: Young, Green, seeking any guidance

[Autoground]

Hello everyone,

I've recently 'moved' to Vegas after having spent a fair amount of time learning to count cards -- but I'm still a newbie. If anyone can offer my advice on the decisions I've slowly made, I'd appreciate it plenty.

I've decided to focus on the 6 deck shoes with S17, best odds, and lowest possible minimum bets. This serves the purpose of not drawing heat to my (I'm told) obvious card-counter characteristics - youth and facial stubble. Also, my bankroll is, while enough for my purposes, precious.

So far I've found two good spots that fill these criteria, but two only. I wonder how long I can keep playing there? I think two dealers already know I'm counting cards, but they seem like they could care less, as my small stakes pose no threat.

I am, a bit sadly, alone in this city, so I have little to do aside from execute my card counting practice. Anyone can feel free to email me with advice about where to go or how to play.

Thanks so much, peace,

[email protected]

[Ouchez]

> Hello everyone,

> I've recently 'moved' to Vegas after having
> spent a fair amount of time learning to
> count cards -- but I'm still a newbie. If
> anyone can offer my advice on the decisions
> I've slowly made, I'd appreciate it plenty.

> I've decided to focus on the 6 deck shoes
> with S17, best odds, and lowest possible
> minimum bets. This serves the purpose of not
> drawing heat to my (I'm told) obvious
> card-counter characteristics - youth and
> facial stubble. Also, my bankroll is, while
> enough for my purposes, precious.

> So far I've found two good spots that fill
> these criteria, but two only. I wonder how
> long I can keep playing there? I think two
> dealers already know I'm counting cards, but
> they seem like they could care less, as my
> small stakes pose no threat.

> I am, a bit sadly, alone in this city, so I
> have little to do aside from execute my card
> counting practice. Anyone can feel free to
> email me with advice about where to go or
> how to play.

> Thanks so much, peace,

> [email protected]

become an expert at them and play short sessions.

Move around.

Also maintain an even bet strategy that you can live with.

Be friendly with the dealers and pit. Cultivate them. Co-opt them. Use them.

Always show a players card.

Find a teammate.........preferably a foxy female, with no "stubble" on her face.

Do a side count of aces.

Watch for weak dealers and weak shuffles.

Give up little if any ev to cover plays.

"We caught em' nappin Boyz!"
Ouchez.

[Ouchez]

> become an expert at them and play short
> sessions.

> Move around.

> Also maintain an even bet strategy that you
> can live with.

> Be friendly with the dealers and pit.
> Cultivate them. Co-opt them. Use them.

> Always show a players card.

> Find a teammate.........preferably a foxy
> female, with no "stubble" on her
> face.

> Do a side count of aces.

> Watch for weak dealers and weak shuffles.

> Give up little if any ev to cover plays.

Game conditions are most important including the number of players at the table, never play with more than 2 other players if you are playing serious. Heads up is by far the best.

Be willing to walk out of a casino if the conditions for playing are not right.

Learn how to deal with Ploppyi. Remember they will, by the math, lose to the casino, so if they lose to help you win that is acceptable. Do what needs to be done to increase your ev.

Be flexible and innovative.

Join "Don's Domain" to rub shoulders with the most experienced players and to learn from them the inner secrets to winning at BJ.

> "We caught em' nappin Boyz!"
> Ouchez.

[mr bojangles]

Whilst you can enjoy your two found games, do not burn yourself on them. If you suspect the dealers are onto you it might be worth giving them a break for a little while.
There are quite a few $5 playable 6 deckers in town, as Ouchez said 'move around'.
Are you playing on different shifts ? Each game is potentially hittable 3 times a day so you could play the same casino every day but only hit each crew once every three days.

[Autoground]

Thank you -- what's Ploppyi?

also, you recommend dismissing a focus on 6 deck? I've devoted most of my learning to 6 deck, i wonder if 2 deck would be an easy transition, and even then, do those games offer lower minimum bets?

and you mentioned even bet strategy -- i was unaware the game was beatable with even betting -- it is so?

-Autoground

[Parker]

> Hello everyone,

> I've recently 'moved' to Vegas after having
> spent a fair amount of time learning to
> count cards -- but I'm still a newbie. If
> anyone can offer my advice on the decisions
> I've slowly made, I'd appreciate it plenty.

> I've decided to focus on the 6 deck shoes
> with S17, best odds, and lowest possible
> minimum bets. This serves the purpose of not
> drawing heat to my (I'm told) obvious
> card-counter characteristics - youth and
> facial stubble. Also, my bankroll is, while
> enough for my purposes, precious.

> So far I've found two good spots that fill
> these criteria, but two only. I wonder how
> long I can keep playing there? I think two
> dealers already know I'm counting cards, but
> they seem like they could care less, as my
> small stakes pose no threat.

Las Vegas has over 100 casinos offering live blackjack. Out of all those, you are saying that you can only find two playable games? You really need to get out more. :-)

If you are going to play in one area, you need to be more versatile in your games. There are good single and double deck games to be found in Las Vegas, if one is willing to look hard enough. H17 6D games can be playable with good pen.

Good pen is extremely important in all games, and may be found in unlikely places. There is no substitute for doing the legwork.

Learn to take advantage of coupons. Even a 6:5 game is playable if they will let you use a 2:1 BJ coupon -- providing you quit when you get the BJ. Match play coupons can provide positive EV in an otherwise unplayable game.

Consider learning to play video poker. There are numerous machines in Las Vegas (mostly in locals casinos) that have machines with a small positive EV with perfect play. You can grind out a few dollars/hour EV on these. More importantly, you will never have to pay for food in Las Vegas.

> I am, a bit sadly, alone in this city, so I
> have little to do aside from execute my card
> counting practice. Anyone can feel free to
> email me with advice about where to go or
> how to play.

Card counters are a notoriously paranoid bunch. Don't expect your inbox to be flooded, at least not until you've participated more on forums such as these and people have had a chance to get to know you.

[Ouchez]

> Thank you -- what's Ploppyi?

I better not go there

> also, you recommend dismissing a focus on 6
> deck? I've devoted most of my learning to 6
> deck, i wonder if 2 deck would be an easy
> transition, and even then, do those games
> offer lower minimum bets?

It will take some getting used to, the cards are usually down and you can't see the other players till they are flipped..or you peak...or they show you....this is ONE reason why you want as few players as possible. The mins may be more, the rules may be a little different. The nice thing is the swings in the count are dramatic so you get more action and the fewer the decks the better, usually, in lower house edge.

By even bet scheme I mean stick with a ramp you can stomach when things go horrible wrong, and when they go dreamily right. Such as, living with a $5 to $60 spread, through the lean and fat times, in the DD game. Then when you build the bank do a $10 to $120, just examples. You see the math will never work out right if you lose at a $25 to $200 spread and then drop back to a $5 to $50 spread, then win at that and raise again, only to lose and drop again. You are betting big when losing and small when winning, you will never catch up. A big mistake I made early on.

And my friend Parker is right about the comps, play the comp game like you are a comp whore, they can be most valuable!!

"We caught em' nappin Boyz!"
Ouchez.

[Autoground]

I am, of course, still intrigued about knowing what Ploppyi is, heh, the name is so mysterious.

Here's my current situation -- I arrived with a prepared bankroll, but also with $375 cash on hand I was prepared to kick things off with.

I played with the Hi-Lo count with bets from $1 to $33 (you now fully percieve my conservatism, but remember this is my first time). Counting cards where the table minimums were so freakishly low was only available because I arrived in Vegas from Eastern Coast time; i came prepared to wake up every night at 3 AM and play from 4 to about 9 -- thus it was actually possible to sit alone at the $1 tables. You see now why amid all of las vegas I found only 2 casinos with s17 and $2 tables.

When my cash on hand turned into 800 without ever having significantly dipped below the starting 375, I made the mistake Ouchez referred to -- I moved on up to $5 dollar tables. I promptly lost a good bit and now have $450.

This weekend, while the tables are so very very busy and I'll not be playing, I have a lot of decisions to make: do i stay at $5 tables, or do i keep it safe as hell at the $1 - $3 range? Do I need a more agressive bet ramp? (this one I've sort of already answered and devised) And the biggie: do I drop my focus and move to double deck (this would, by the way necessitate moving to the $5 level at least).

These decisions feel so hard because I'm emotionally overinvested -- i reeally want this to work. And that's why i'm taking it in tiny tiny baby steps. My dream is to settle in Vegas doing this with a small part-time job to supplement.

Lastly, can anyone recommend a park in Vegas where people between 20 and 25 are moderately friendly? Gads I need something to do with my time (but you guys have really nice libraries)

Peace and thank you
[email protected]

[Autoground]

I'm pleased to report that the penetration for my $2 table is actually quite good - cutting one deck off a 6 deck shoe that stands on soft 17. Unfortunately, this particular casino offers no coupons, though I was comped a buffet just for being polite and ever-so charming :retentious gufaw:: Other than two incidents like that, I don't see how I can play the comp game until I'm ready to have a minimum bet of 10, which feels like a long way off.

And yeah, paranoia is fine and expected, but I figure I'll keep the email invitation out, as, well, it sounds so lame, but i really -- gawd, it sounds dramatically lame -- have nothing to do when the tables fill up. That and having a cold and getting tired of walking around new casinos, even though i havent' seen pirates of TI yet, and blah blahblah and thanks for reading my compaining and blah blah blah, this weekend I'll call my mom.

peace and thanks
[email protected]

[Parker]

> I am, of course, still intrigued about
> knowing what Ploppyi is, heh, the name is so
> mysterious.

A ploppy is a clueless obnoxious player. "Ploppyi" is Ouchez' creative pluralization of the word (I guess).

> Here's my current situation -- I arrived
> with a prepared bankroll, but also with $375
> cash on hand I was prepared to kick things
> off with.

> I played with the Hi-Lo count with bets from
> $1 to $33 (you now fully percieve my
> conservatism, but remember this is my first
> time). Counting cards where the table
> minimums were so freakishly low was only
> available because I arrived in Vegas from
> Eastern Coast time; i came prepared to wake
> up every night at 3 AM and play from 4 to
> about 9 -- thus it was actually possible to
> sit alone at the $1 tables. You see now why
> amid all of las vegas I found only 2 casinos
> with s17 and $2 tables.

> When my cash on hand turned into 800 without
> ever having significantly dipped below the
> starting 375, I made the mistake Ouchez
> referred to -- I moved on up to $5 dollar
> tables. I promptly lost a good bit and now
> have $450.

> This weekend, while the tables are so very
> very busy and I'll not be playing, I have a
> lot of decisions to make: do i stay at $5
> tables, or do i keep it safe as hell at the
> $1 - $3 range? Do I need a more agressive
> bet ramp? (this one I've sort of already
> answered and devised) And the biggie: do I
> drop my focus and move to double deck (this
> would, by the way necessitate moving to the
> $5 level at least).

> These decisions feel so hard because I'm
> emotionally overinvested -- i reeally want
> this to work. And that's why i'm taking it
> in tiny tiny baby steps. My dream is to
> settle in Vegas doing this with a small
> part-time job to supplement.

Ah, the optimism of youth! I hate to be the one to slap you in the face with a hard dose of reality, but the reason that you are "emotionally overinvested" is because you are grossly underbankrolled. The amount you describe is barely an adequate session bankroll, let alone a stake for someone attempting to turn pro.

Keep in mind that, while you are playing a a long-term advantage, the odds of your winning or losing any given session are, for all practical purposes, even. Full time pros routinely endure losing streaks that may last weeks or even months. Think about that. You must be sufficiently bankrolled to weather these streaks, else you are doomed to failure.

With your current bankroll, your hourly expectation is less than minimum wage (with any sort of acceptable risk of ruin). This will make it impossible to survive, let alone build a real bankroll.

You are essentially just gambling, hoping to catch a hot streak before you get wiped out.

I strongly recommend that you consider a full time job. You can then live frugally and play in your spare time while building a real bankroll.

> Lastly, can anyone recommend a park in Vegas
> where people between 20 and 25 are
> moderately friendly? Gads I need something
> to do with my time (but you guys have really
> nice libraries)

You may soon be looking for a park to sleep in. :-)

I apologize for the harsh tone of my post, but you really need to understand that the odds of your succeeding with your plan are extremely long. I really do wish you the best of luck.

[Bettie]

> Lastly, can anyone recommend a park in Vegas
> where people between 20 and 25 are
> moderately friendly?

I read an article recently in the paper about the different frisbee golf courses you can find around town. There's one by the airport, at Sunset Park (Sunset and Eastern). Maybe joining a game would ease some of your boredom. That particular park also has basketball courts, and probably some other amenities where you could hook up for a game. Also, if you have a dog, hit the dog runs for instant comraderie.

Bettie

[Autoground]

I might have been unclear on my bankroll by describing my recent ups and downs -- this 450 I have as cash on hand is still above my bankroll in the bank.

perhaps it sounded like i had 450 in total which is not the case. also, i don't mind being under minimum wage, what I'm going for right now isn't profit, but experience before upping it.

oh, and your tone wasn't harsh at all, quite polite, really : )

A

[Parker]

> I might have been unclear on my bankroll by
> describing my recent ups and downs -- this
> 450 I have as cash on hand is still above my
> bankroll in the bank.

> perhaps it sounded like i had 450 in total
> which is not the case.

I'm really, really glad to hear that! :-)

> also, i don't mind
> being under minimum wage, what I'm going for
> right now isn't profit, but experience
> before upping it.

That's fine, as long as you have no illusions about living on the money you make playing blackjack.

> oh, and your tone wasn't harsh at all, quite
> polite, really : )

Good. We try to keep things polite around here. :-)