onetoomany: Why don't the casinos just eliminate

[onetoomany]

their blackjack tables and install slot machines in the floor space the tables are taking? Wouldn't the casinos earn more per square foot and have a lot less trouble with fewer employees to be concerned with? And the coinless (ticket only) slots have such little upkeep or attention needed by the casinos that the earnings on them are practically all profit.

What's the incentive to keep blackjack? Maybe there are still gamblers that prefer sitting & playing blackjack, but do the casinos make as much off them as they do the slot machines?

[AdvantageRay]

Although there are rare exceptions, casino's make much more per sq ft from slots then they do from tables. The problem, of course, is that there are alot of players that simply would not play at all if slots were all they had to choose from. So from the casino's perspective, it always pays to have some amount of the very profitable casino floor space geared towards tables. It is true that the number of tables have been dramatically reduced over the past 10-20 years, and specifically for the reasons you posted. More money goes to the bottom line, they have more control over specific long term win rates, and of course dont have to worry about APs who are not doing anything illegal.
In my slightly underinformed opinion (Ive never taken time to learn much about slots or VP) the only way to gain a long term advantage on a slot machine is to risk being arrested. Casinos like it that way.

D

[Parker]

> their blackjack tables and install slot
> machines in the floor space the tables are
> taking? Wouldn't the casinos earn more per
> square foot and have a lot less trouble with
> fewer employees to be concerned with? And
> the coinless (ticket only) slots have such
> little upkeep or attention needed by the
> casinos that the earnings on them are
> practically all profit.

> What's the incentive to keep blackjack?
> Maybe there are still gamblers that prefer
> sitting & playing blackjack, but do the
> casinos make as much off them as they do the
> slot machines?

Actually, this has happened to some extent. Most of the large, older casinos have fewer blackjack tables than they did many years ago.

Many of the small casinos have indeed gotten rid of their tables. I have played live blackjack at Bourbon Street (on Flamingo next to the Barbary Coast) many years ago. Twenty years ago, it was not uncommon for the larger neighborhood bars around town to have a couple of blackjack tables. These have all been replaced, mostly with video poker machines.

However, the casinos want everyone's money. They know that there are some people that like table games and would not gamble at all if slots were the only option. As long as those people exist, there will continue to be table games.

Besides, table games add to the casino ambience. Slot players like having table games around, even if they don't play them.

Look at Mermaids and La Bayou downtown. These casinos are all slots, and they have to hire girls to stand in front of them, giving away free beads and all but dragging people inside to play. Even so, they are struggling.

[Ouchez]

> their blackjack tables and install slot
> machines in the floor space the tables are
> taking? Wouldn't the casinos earn more per
> square foot and have a lot less trouble with
> fewer employees to be concerned with? And
> the coinless (ticket only) slots have such
> little upkeep or attention needed by the
> casinos that the earnings on them are
> practically all profit.

6.5 payouts, fake 1 and 2 deck, 6 and 8 deck shoes, peculiar and outright poor rules, very high mins and low max. The casinos hate having to offer the game in the original form. I am lucky to still have a few great games to play, real lucky.

Regards,
Ouchez.

[SOTSOG]

More and more square footage of casinos is devoted to slots.

Slot players are given better comp programs than table players. Most marketing is directed towards slot players and earning points by playing slots.

Ever see any casino marketing? What are the pictures of Mr. and Mrs. Happy doing? That's right, smiling and playing slots.

Of course, when they finally go to 100% slots, you won't see me. I have never played a slot machine in my life.

[Tony]

They appeared to be trying to make their casino a "Slot Heaven" in Tunica with hopes of stealing other players. They not only eliminated blackjack tables but ALL table games and replaced the floor space with colorful machines and all sorts of cartoons and monsters.

What was thought to be a goldmine by casino management turned out to be a nightmare.

After about 6 months, business had taken a steep nosedive and management was fired. The damage done was beyond repair and Isle of Capri was not able to hold their casino together. Needless to say they had to shut down and put their property up for sale. Sams Town had an interest and bought the hotel,but left the casino standing in the dark.

A lesson to be learned is never underestimate the power of green felt. Most competent casinos know this and that's why table games will always exist. It's only common sense. I assume you're not a card counter,so this good news may not enlighten you very much.

Oddly as it may seem, the reason some casinos cut back on tables is to intimidate ploppies into packing all tables(more money per square ft!?) and bet higher minimums. The extra floor space is only a nice result they fill up with some extra slots. Tables will never go away,they will only become more and more "packed" at the casinos using such a tactic. Unfortunately this is an end result that may cause casinos to lose money due to ploppies leaving and going other casinos where they can (at least) comfortably lose money. Ever played blackjack at a packed table with three fat ladies? It's not a comfortable situation, is it?

Tony

[sam]

Last week my regular casino took out two crap tables and added four blackjack tables. The ratio of crap tables to blackjack tables is now 12 to 86. March '04 Win to Drop percentage on craps is 18%. W to D on BJ is 15%. Slots Win to Drop is 7%. The telling figure is total volume of cash. Craps Win is 883,00 to Drop of 4.9 million. BJ is 2.2 million to 14.6 million. Slots Win is 20.6 million and the Drop is 287 million. It's a volume business.

> More and more square footage of casinos is
> devoted to slots.

> Slot players are given better comp programs
> than table players. Most marketing is
> directed towards slot players and earning
> points by playing slots.

> Ever see any casino marketing? What are the
> pictures of Mr. and Mrs. Happy doing? That's
> right, smiling and playing slots.

> Of course, when they finally go to 100%
> slots, you won't see me. I have never played
> a slot machine in my life.

[SOTSOG]

I don't know how you define "drop" or what that means.

For slot addicts, the house edge is 100%. Anything they win is just put back into the machine. Winning just means they spin the reels a little longer, using a few cents more in electricity, until they give it all back.

A table player will actually walk away from the table and carry a big win around for a while, until giving the house another crack at his money.

If a slot player continues to be lucky before losing a large jackpot back, they then move up to higher and higher denomination slots, in order to give the house a better chance to get back their money.

Only death can stop a slot player from losing it all back eventually. Never seen one quit ahead of the game.

[mr bojangles]

It's the same reason supermarkets don't just offer own brand goods over name brand products. If they did not sell the less profitable name brand goods ( table games ) some people would never venture into the store and wind up buying own brand goods ( slots ).

[AdvantageRay]

"Drop" is a casino term meaning total $ played. This re-betting of the slot players winnings adds to the drop, as to where "Coin In" is strictly the amount of cash invested by the player. Drop would be the slot equivelant to total "action" by a table player (Ex $10/hand@100 hph for 3 hours=$3,000 of total action). Generally it is true that the casino win (on a % basis) is much smaller for slots, but with the constant re-betting of the winnings, it pumps the volume (Drop) up so high that the total $ win far exceeds that of table games (on a square foot basis). As Sam said, volume is everything. Add to all of this a much greater % going to the bottom line and it is no wonder the slot movement of the past quarter century has been so significant.

As for the slot player, I couldnt agree with you more. Although I have seen some slot players take a "small win" approach, they have been programed by the marketing departments of the various "entertainment" corporations to go for the big win. The addition of using machines with coin credits rather then the old fashioned put a coin in and spin approach has helped this along as well. Now with the ticket in/out approach, the casinos have taken it a bit further. No longer can a player cash out, and go to a machine with a bucket of dollars and put a few in. Now, they have to cash out, and put the whole ticket into a new machine. Poor slot players, I feel even worse for them then I do for some of the pathetic ploppies.

D

[Ouchez]

> I don't know how you define "drop"
> or what that means.

> For slot addicts, the house edge is 100%.
> Anything they win is just put back into the
> machine. Winning just means they spin the
> reels a little longer, using a few cents
> more in electricity, until they give it all
> back.

> A table player will actually walk away from
> the table and carry a big win around for a
> while, until giving the house another crack
> at his money.

> If a slot player continues to be lucky
> before losing a large jackpot back, they
> then move up to higher and higher
> denomination slots, in order to give the
> house a better chance to get back their
> money.

> Only death can stop a slot player from
> losing it all back eventually. Never seen
> one quit ahead of the game.

it off to give to my lovah who has a real weakness for slots, she plays it just as you posted. I am trying to wean her off slots and have her play strictly BJ....I mean Black Jack...of course. She wins real big and then will lose it all back.

I, on the other hand, never play the slots, never.

Again, great post SOTSOG.

Regards,
Ouchez.

[Ouchez]

[bigplayer]

but very close...having run an establishment with gaming machines here is what everything means.

Drop...is the total of the original amounts of cash money actually dropped into a machine or table by customers over a given amount of time. For a slot machine it would be the actual paper money in the bill acceptor plus the coins in the bottom coin box. For table games it would be the sum of the actual money dropped into the box by the dealer.

Coin-In..refers to the total of all action or wagers given on a slot machine. If you play $5 VP for an hour putting in a $100 bill to start the machine's drop will be $100, but coin-in will be $25/hand * 600 hands or $15,000. This figure is also known as the "handle" and includes only money actually wagered...not just put into the machine.

For table games, the "Float" is the amount of chips in the chip rack. The profit/loss of the table is determined by subtracting the amount of chips the players "walked" with from the amount of money the dealer dropped into the cash box and then dividing by the total of buy-in's. A player might buy-in for $500 but walk with $400. The table hold would be 20% in this example.

Casino Win or "Hold" for slot machines is the Coin-Out minus Coin-In divided by the Drop. So in the above VP example, if the player's handle is $15,000 coin-in and his coin-out was $14,950 he would be left with a cash-out of $50. The "Hold" in this case would be ($14,950-$15,000)/$100 or 50%.

Hold should not be confused with the house theoretical edge which is usually a much lower number. Take a typical Louisiana bar with three state licensed Video Poker Machines. (Max return according to state law is 94%). This particular bar has machines set to return 92% (pretty bad machines). Because of the grind of the machines these games had a hold of over 50% most weeks...so you have an 8% edge translating into a 50% grind. Blackjack works the same way, where a 0.5% to 2% edge (depending on player skill) translates to a house hold of 12% to 15% on average. Obviously, the faster the game, the more unskilled the players, the less crowded the conditions, the more effective the house grind becomes as the players initial investment and subsequent winnings get exposed to the house edge over and over again.

This is why casinos with a labor policy that keeps only a few blackjack tables open with those tables kept intentionally full tend to make less money per hour from their players than casinos with lots of open tables and fairly uncrowded conditions. Full tables are slow tables and the house grind is less effective at game speeds of 50 rounds per hour versus 125 per hour at fairly uncrowded tables.