chrisvanwinkle: get message out, shuffling machines cheat

[chrisvanwinkle]

Just a thought,

The only game I play in vegas is BlackJack. Not that I can beat it (I haven't got that far yet, though I'm getting closer), but I play just because I know it's the one game in Vegas I have a chance to beat. And because I don't feel like an idiot for trying. It's a challange.

I think by far the majority of the people who play the game are pretty much like me, some a bit further along, most a bit behind in terms of skill. They have heard through the books and media appearances of Sanford Wong and Mr. Schlesinger and others, that this is the one game you can beat. Many even have a vague understanding of some of the main concepts such as "high low" (heck you can see Stanford Wong demonstrating that one on the Travel Channel every other week). But even if the ploppies don't know anything beyond a few beginning concepts, they definitely understand that BlackJack is the one game in Vegas that they are not behaving like an idiot when they play it, because it can be beaten.

Well, I just got back from a trip to Vegas, and based on what I saw on the strip, I think it's time as a community, we get out a new message. "Continuous shuffling machines are a form of cheating by the casinos. It's as if they were turning poker into bingo. And if you are playing in a game with a continuous shuffler you cannot win, and you are a chump."

All of us need to be out on the web, at other gambling and travel sites spreading this new message. And especially the most notable experts need to be out in the media speaking with a single voice on this subject. Stanford shouldn't be out there shilling for Vegas on the Travel channel when his game (as a game of skill in any case) is dissappearing from the strip.

My basic thought is this, the shared belief of most gamblers has become that BlackJack can be beaten, but now we have to give the ploppies and the occasional gamblers a new message, "continuous shuffling machines are a cheat." If we don't, Black Jack, as a game of strategy, will soon be a thing of the past.

Or, hopefully, I'm behind the times and people are already organizing to get this message out.

Chris

[Norm Wattenberger]

I don't think cheating is the right word. It just isn't Blackjack. If you played stud poker and weren't allowed to see any of the other players' cards, it wouldn't be stud poker. If you played bridge and weren't allowed to bid, it wouldn't be bridge. If you shuffle after every hand in Blackjack, you have fundamentally changed the game and it is no longer Blackjack.

Serious Blackjack Software

[Sun Runner]

> If you shuffle after every hand in Blackjack,
> you have fundamentally changed the game and
> it is no longer Blackjack.

How do you complain about the CSM without looking like a counter? Don't most ploppies play BS to some degree or another and think that alone will allow them to hold their own against the casino; maybe win some even?

Maybe my paranoia is mis-placed. Maybe the casinos believe that the majority of those calling themselves counters are not truly a threat to the bottom line -in fact are probably a positive addition to it.

[Coug Fan]

> How do you complain about the CSM without
> looking like a counter? Don't most ploppies
> play BS to some degree or another and think
> that alone will allow them to hold their own
> against the casino; maybe win some even?

> Maybe my paranoia is mis-placed. Maybe the
> casinos believe that the majority of those
> calling themselves counters are not truly a
> threat to the bottom line -in fact are
> probably a positive addition to it.

A significant number of ploppies believe in the "flow" of the cards. I complain about CSM's because they destroy the flow of the cards. In ploppy logic, its the same as people jumping in and out of a shoe and constantly making stupid plays like splitting tens. The flow gets all screwed up.

You can make a very loud and opinionated argument along these lines that most ploppies will completely support without sounding like a counter for one second.

[Igor]

[Guy from the Southwest]

> It was exactly like talking to sheep, without the baa's.

I dunno much about sheep -- they're the critters with the wool, right? -- but some of 'em SURELY are smarter than a few of the blackjack players I've known.

Used to work with a guy who . . . well, let's just say he wasn't Phi Beta Kappa. He'd fly out to Vegas and, if he was up after the first day, would call a friend.

"Hey, I'm winnin'! Get on a plane and come out!" As if his short-term success assured his friend of a profitable visit.

On one such trip -- years ago -- he stayed at the Mirage where, betting nickels at a CSM, he started winning. Often. And began increasing his bets. Often. After a while he was betting black, "mostly $300 to $400 a hand."

Prior to that trip, I'm not sure he'd ever HAD $400 at one time, but never mind. He pushed it out there. And won. When his stack hit $10k he called it a night, but not before a host bumped him up to a suite, courtesy of his new good friends at the Resort.

A sunrise later, intent on leveraging his fortune, he headed downtown where all the shuffling machines (in those days) had manicures. He played 'em 'til plane-time, and boarded the flight with his remaining $3,000 -- sadder, but "wiser."

Told me there's no way he'd ever again play at a table that didn't have "one of those shuffler things."

I lost track of him years ago, but I'll guarantee you he kept his word.