nwinjim: Death of Single Deck on the strip

[nwinjim]

Just got back from Vegas and I am sorry to announce there is not one decent remaining single deck game left on the Strip. Each and every place that offered single deck had a 6 to 5 return on a BJ, which we all know is a lousy, unplayable game. Even casinos like Slots A Fun and Circus Circus, that offered single deck for years have gone to the 6/5 game. How long will it be before downtown follows suit??? If it ever happens, I'll take all of my BJ business to Laughlin, where decent single deck games are prevalent.

[Parker]

The strip has been this way for some time, although the death of the SOF game was fairly recent. The only decent single deck games in Las Vegas are downtown.

The disease has even spread to Laughlin. On a recent visit I noted that on a Saturday night, the Edgewater offered decent single deck games at $5 min and up in their main pits, but 6:5 single deck with a $2 min in the "Party Pit" in the south end of the casino. Even sadder, these tables were filled with ploppies happily losing their money.

[Battery]

> Just got back from Vegas and I am sorry to
> announce there is not one decent remaining
> single deck game left on the Strip. Each and
> every place that offered single deck had a 6
> to 5 return on a BJ, which we all know is a
> lousy, unplayable game. Even casinos like
> Slots A Fun and Circus Circus, that offered
> single deck for years have gone to the 6/5
> game. How long will it be before downtown
> follows suit??? If it ever happens, I'll
> take all of my BJ business to Laughlin,
> where decent single deck games are
> prevalent.

I just spent four days at the Horseshoe downtown. In the four months since I had last been there, they have put in six-deck shoe games at all but three tables. Needless to say, it was next to impossible to find a SD table with fewer than four players. Thankfully, the 6:5 plague has not made its way downtown yet.

And even worse news, Wanda no longer works there.

[methodman]

[Parker]

Sure, where they give rule of five pen, or better yet, simply shuffle whenever anyone raises their bet.

Where anything above low red action merits your own personal pit critter.

Where anyone showing even moderate skill at the game is invited to play elsewhere.

Oh, yeah - they no longer allow DAS.

Great game. :-P

[Moose]

Oh man, it's time for Benny to rise from his grave and 'deal' with those butchering his property. For that matter, he could also deal with those who robbed his cage..

Failing that, well.. 6 deckers all over the place? Man, what happened to the Shoe.. *sigh*

Next thing you know, the WSOP will become the World Series of Three-Card Poker..

M.

[bond trader]

> Thankfully, the 6:5 plague has not made its
> way downtown yet.

Unless it changed in the last couple of weeks, Golden Nugget 'offers' 6:5 single deck now at 4 tables. It's bad enough on the strip, but a person has to be even more stupid/lazy to play 6:5 in the downtown area.

BT

[Marc]

When I was in town in early March I found plenty of 2 deck toss with normal BJ pay while playing downtown (Binions had plenty of tables for instance) - bad penetration (of course) and terrible service. Saturday evening - only 1 waitress, only 1 cashier - very disturbing.

[methodman]

Well thats how it is now for single--its paranoia..
dd a little less
and 6 dk is decent...and thats the word of the day.

> Sure, where they give rule of five pen, or
> better yet, simply shuffle whenever anyone
> raises their bet.

> Where anything above low red action merits
> your own personal pit critter.

> Where anyone showing even moderate skill at
> the game is invited to play elsewhere.

> Oh, yeah - they no longer allow DAS.

> Great game. :-P

[litcrit]

Help me understand something. Exactly what is it that makes the 6:5 game unplayable. Do we lose so much on the blackjacks we get in the high counts that off set the wins we get from our twenties, splits and doubles? I only get to LV once a year, and it sure is discouraging to hear about the decline of the sd game, especially downtown. Last year I had no trouble avoiding the 6:5 games, but now I'm getting worried!

[Parker]

> Help me understand something. Exactly what
> is it that makes the 6:5 game unplayable. Do
> we lose so much on the blackjacks we get in
> the high counts that off set the wins we get
> from our twenties, splits and doubles?

Absolutely! The bonus paid on a blackjack is one of the biggest rules favoring the player. A "normal" single deck game has a house advantage of around .18% with typical rules (H17, DA2, no DAS). Change the BJ payout to 6:5 and even with DAS allowed we are now looking at a house advantage of 1.45%!!

For comparison, an 8 deck shoe with bad rules (H17, no DAS) has a house edge of .79%.

For the counter it is even worse, since the blackjacks are more likely to occur with large bets out, so the difference is even greater.

Furthermore, the payout change throws off the counting system. Our edge no longer increases by ,5% with each increase of one in the true count (Hi-lo or similar system).

If you're still not convinced, let's put some dollar values to it.

Suppose you have a decent game, 100 hands per hour, and you are spreading $10-$40, so your average bet is somewhere around $20. Since you will get a blackjack (on average) once every 21 hands, you will average 4 blackjacks per hour.

With a normal 3:2 blackjack payout ($20 bet pays $30), that means you win $120 from those four blackjacks. With 6:5 you only get $96.

The 6:5 payout is costing you $24 or 2.4 units per hour!

Since, with a typical counting system in a normal game you can expect to win around two units per hour, the 6:5 payout means that you are now playing a losing game.

> I
> only get to LV once a year, and it sure is
> discouraging to hear about the decline of
> the sd game, especially downtown. Last year
> I had no trouble avoiding the 6:5 games, but
> now I'm getting worried!

Be worried. Be very worried.

[dutch]

> Unless it changed in the last couple of
> weeks, Golden Nugget 'offers' 6:5 single
> deck now at 4 tables. It's bad enough on the
> strip, but a person has to be even more
> stupid/lazy to play 6:5 in the downtown
> area.

Golden Nugget hasn't had real single deck in at least two years.(I stay there about 3 times a year). They essentially replaced their crummy 2-deck game with the 6/5 junk.

[litcrit]