Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: lelo: EV and variance of game?

  1. #1
    lelo
    Guest

    lelo: EV and variance of game?

    Rules: 6D, OBO, S17, D2, full ES, DAS.
    Resplit: yes, to max 4 hands, including aces, but only on your initial hand. example: you split 22 and get a 2 on your right split hand. then you can resplit. but no rs if you get a 2 at your left split hand. split aces get 1 card, surrender after split is allowed.
    What is the EV of such a game and how much is the difference to "normal" resplit?

  2. #2
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Resplit right hand only

    That rule made me curious. I get .03% penalty for Resplit right hand only.

  3. #3
    ES
    Guest

    ES: Re: EV and variance of game?

    What is OBO? I suppose that full ES means es against both ace and 10.

    I would run a sim of the game with and without resplitting and take the mean of the two EVs. Resplitting adds little to EV; nrs takes little from it. Resplitting allowed is much more common. The original Atlantic City rules, which were set by the NJ Casino Control Commission, did not include resplitting. I think this was not intentional or done with little forethought. Resplitting is now an optional rule in AC and most casinos allow it. The original AC rules were es, das, s17, doa and 4 or 6 decks, which gave the BS player a n EV of +0.1%.

    The basic stratgey for es was little known. It includes surrendering 5, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 (incl. 8-8) and 17 against an ace. Many players think 17 is a good hand, no hand under 12 shoud be surrendered because you cannot go over 21 with one hit and that 8-8 should always be split. The flip side is that some players were surrendering 12 and 13 against a 7 or 8. The casinos still wanted esr removed and the Commission removed it without mandating lsr or any other compensating favorable rule. Lsr was removed more than a year before Ken Uston won his NJ Supreme Court case that ended backing off and barring in AC, so he cannot be blamed for ending esr. He even managed to have it reinstated for about a week because of a procedural error made by the Commission in removing it. Uston led a demostration on the Boardwalk to reinstate surrender. I participated in it.

  4. #4
    ES
    Guest

    ES: Re: Resplit right hand only

    Your post must have appeared while I was typing my longer post. What is OBO? Does CV Data alllow simming resplit right hand only? I suggested simming rs and nrs and taking the mean of the two. Is this equivalent, and, if not then why not?

  5. #5
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: Resplit right hand only

    > Your post must have appeared while I was typing my
    > longer post. What is OBO?

    Original bet only lost with dealer BJ. The standard US rule.

    > Does CV Data alllow simming
    > resplit right hand only?

    I have it as an internal rule; which is to say it can't be used in the commercial version. I have to find space on the screen to make it user accessible.

    I suggested simming rs and
    > nrs and taking the mean of the two. Is this
    > equivalent, and, if not then why not?

    Yes that is very close.

  6. #6
    lelo
    Guest

    lelo: most interesting point:

    OBO= original bet only, i.e. only 1 bet is lost if you double or split and dealer gets BJ
    full ES is indeed ES against any card, including Ace. A lot of casinos are just ES10, i.e. ES against a 10 but not against A.

    I understand that this RS-rule is worth nearly half of "normal" RS (exept the rare case when you get a resplit card on both hands).

    Something i have not seen published yet: What is the typical variance of an ES game, or equivalent: the Kelly quotient? And if the game is just ES10, but no surrender against Ace?

    > What is OBO? I suppose that full ES means es against
    > both ace and 10.

    > I would run a sim of the game with and without
    > resplitting and take the mean of the two EVs.
    > Resplitting adds little to EV; nrs takes little from
    > it. Resplitting allowed is much more common. The
    > original Atlantic City rules, which were set by the NJ
    > Casino Control Commission, did not include
    > resplitting. I think this was not intentional or done
    > with little forethought. Resplitting is now an
    > optional rule in AC and most casinos allow it. The
    > original AC rules were es, das, s17, doa and 4 or 6
    > decks, which gave the BS player a n EV of +0.1%.

    > The basic stratgey for es was little known. It
    > includes surrendering 5, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
    > (incl. 8-8) and 17 against an ace. Many players
    > think 17 is a good hand, no hand under 12 shoud be
    > surrendered because you cannot go over 21 with one hit
    > and that 8-8 should always be split. The flip side
    > is that some players were surrendering 12 and 13
    > against a 7 or 8. The casinos still wanted esr removed
    > and the Commission removed it without mandating lsr or
    > any other compensating favorable rule. Lsr was removed
    > more than a year before Ken Uston won his NJ Supreme
    > Court case that ended backing off and barring in AC,
    > so he cannot be blamed for ending esr. He even managed
    > to have it reinstated for about a week because of a
    > procedural error made by the Commission in removing
    > it. Uston led a demostration on the Boardwalk to
    > reinstate surrender. I participated in it.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.