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Thread: Sun Runner: Canned BJ software

  1. #1
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: Canned BJ software

    > In view of this, intepret the lack of canned BJ simulation software as you like ...

    I interpret the lack thereof as follows ...

    ... there are a million regular folk to every scientist.

    The regular folk live in the world Microsoft created and we either like it or lump it. And while our system is unstable, and vulnerable to outside influence, we find ways to live with it because there is a whole s**t load of software that we can use, and exchange information with, pretty easily.

    Software developers must market to us, because as much as they might hate it, it is the best way to get paid for what they do.

    The regular folk don't have the luxury of installing LINUX and hoping that the EXCEL or WORD or POWER POINT clone is going to produce a file we can exchange with business associates, family, or friends.

    And as to the 'vulnerability' issue; if half as many people were using LINUX as were using WINDOWS, all the little punks out there writing virus code would by now have found a way to screw with LINUX also; thankfully for you and Parker, for now, they just don't care.

    Am I saying I like MS? Nope.

    I am saying that trying to live in my world, using LINUX, would give me brain damage.



    Oh yea, and I get to use Norm's stuff also.

  2. #2
    penumbra
    Guest

    penumbra: Re: Canned BJ software

    OK, I will respond to a couple of these
    points.

    First, Windows is a security disaster not
    because of its prevalence, as claimed by
    the poster, but because of its (lack of)
    design. It is exploitable because the
    idiots in Redmond don't have a clue about
    security.

    As far as your "regular guy" argument goes,
    I am glad you can find all the applications
    you need for your purposes. I can find
    all the applications I need for my purposes
    (minus BJ), exchange files with colleagues,
    and almost without exception
    it is free and works flawlessly. All I can
    say I that I am glad I don't have to exist
    in your "regular guy" world. Hey, the
    "regular guy" drives a Chevy Cavalier and
    drinks Miller beer, but who would do so by choice?

    > I interpret the lack thereof as follows ...

    > ... there are a million regular folk to
    > every scientist.

    > The regular folk live in the world Microsoft
    > created and we either like it or lump it.
    > And while our system is unstable, and
    > vulnerable to outside influence, we find
    > ways to live with it because there is a
    > whole s**t load of software that we can use,
    > and exchange information with, pretty
    > easily.

    > Software developers must market to us,
    > because as much as they might hate it, it is
    > the best way to get paid for what they do.

    > The regular folk don't have the luxury of
    > installing LINUX and hoping that the EXCEL
    > or WORD or POWER POINT clone is going to
    > produce a file we can exchange with business
    > associates, family, or friends.

    > And as to the 'vulnerability' issue; if half
    > as many people were using LINUX as were
    > using WINDOWS, all the little punks out
    > there writing virus code would by now have
    > found a way to screw with LINUX also;
    > thankfully for you and Parker, for now, they
    > just don't care.

    > Am I saying I like MS? Nope.

    > I am saying that trying to live in my world,
    > using LINUX, would give me brain damage.

    >

    > Oh yea, and I get to use Norm's stuff also.
    >

  3. #3
    paranoid android
    Guest

    paranoid android: Re: Canned BJ software

    As a passionate Linux user for many years, you may be surprised to hear that I agree with almost everything you said. Linux is the coolest thing since sliced bread, but it's not for everyone (yet). I like to compare Linux to a Swiss Army knife, Windows to a butter knife. If all you need to do is butter your bread, a butter knife is a lot better tool for the job.

    I wouldn't recommend Linux to any computer user than only used office apps, browsed the net, and chatted online unless he was fairly computer savey. Linux doesn't do any of those tasks better than Windows (although it does all of those tasks almost as well) so why go to the pain of learning something new? By the same token, I think anybody is insane to run a database or web server on Windows as the Linux versions of these applications are vastly superior, much more secure, and completely free.

    Linux is rapidly catching up to Windows in the area of end user applications though. Likewise, Windows is making improvements in stability (I believe largely do from pressure from the stability of Linux). Eventually, Linux will become an extremely user friendly OS with apps for everyone. And eventually Windows will become a stable and secure OS. So, it may not make much difference which you use then (except that Linux will cost a lot less).

    > And as to the 'vulnerability' issue; if half
    > as many people were using LINUX as were
    > using WINDOWS, all the little punks out
    > there writing virus code would by now have
    > found a way to screw with LINUX also;
    > thankfully for you and Parker, for now, they
    > just don't care.

    This is only partly true. Windows is more vulnerable because more script kiddies are using Windows, they can get more of a reaction from their virus writing because there are more Windows users to get infected, their viruses will spread more easily because the average Windows user is more clueless than the average Linux user and will do more stupid stuff, AND because Linux is a much better design and much less vulnerable to viruses. No OS is completely immune from vulnerabilities. But, you have to be pretty smart and do a lot of work to find a vulnerability in Linux, whereas any 14 year old drop out with an afternoon to spare could write a virus for Windows. Furthermore, because Linux is open source, many eyes are looking at the code. Most potentional vulnerabilities in Linux are found and fixed by nice people long before a virus writer can exploit it.

  4. #4
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Unhappy Linux user

    I switched the qfit.com website from Windows to Linux about 18 months ago and was not at all happy with the change for one reason that may sound trivial. Linux file names are case sensitive. I think this is insane. Immediately, I found that links from around the web started failing. For example, sites linking to my calculators page used the names calcp, Calcp and CalcP. Worked great in Windows, fails in Linux. Also, I have to make it clear to anyone on the phone exactly how to type a pagename. In my error logs I often see people using incorrect cases. This is also one of my major gripes with C. The language is not only case sensitive; they actually have different functions with the same name but different cases and multiple variables can have the same name with different cases. Couldn't believe it when I first read it.

  5. #5
    paranoid android
    Guest

    paranoid android: Re: Unhappy Linux user

    > I switched the qfit.com website from Windows
    > to Linux about 18 months ago and was not at
    > all happy with the change for one reason
    > that may sound trivial. Linux file names are
    > case sensitive. I think this is insane.

    Yes, Unix and Linux are case sensitive and it's somewhat disturbing to someone coming from a Windows environment at first. But most people don't give a second thought to it after they've used it for a short time.

    > Immediately, I found that links from around
    > the web started failing. For example, sites
    > linking to my calculators page used the
    > names calcp, Calcp and CalcP. Worked great
    > in Windows, fails in Linux.

    Of course if you'd started with Linux, people would have noticed immediately that their links were wrong and fixed them. Switching OS's is never painless. I'm sure there would be things that would have driven you just as mad if you'd started out with Linux and switched to Windows.

    > Also, I have to
    > make it clear to anyone on the phone exactly
    > how to type a pagename. In my error logs I
    > often see people using incorrect cases.

    There is an option in Apache to make your URLs case insensitive. It can even correct misspelled URL's.

    > This
    > is also one of my major gripes with C. The
    > language is not only case sensitive;

    Most languages used today other than VB are case sensitive.

    > they
    > actually have different functions with the
    > same name but different cases

    Who are "they"? I agree that anyone that makes two functions in their program have the same name with different cases is brain damaged. Where have you seen anyone do this though?

  6. #6
    penumbra
    Guest

    penumbra: Re: Canned BJ software

    My original response didn't pass moderation.

    Regarding security: Windows is exploitable not
    because it is prevalent, but because MS engineers
    are incapable of writing secure code. As p.a. states,
    all OSes are vulnerable, but Windows is a complete
    disaster.

    Now, for the "regular guy" argument. Sun Runner is
    correct to say that Windows is what the "regular guy" is stuck
    with. Indeed, in all aspects of life, the "regular guy" gets
    a raw deal -- if a person accepts that, this is his
    choice and his loss. Myself, I aspire to do things
    better than the "regular guy", and enjoy the subsequent
    rewards. To use
    an example we can all relate to here, the "regular
    folk" BJ players take a beating at the table (otherwise you can
    be sure the game wouldn't be offered!) So I guess I just
    don't understand this argument in defense of Windows.

    Now as for office applications. I have a LINUX box at home,
    a Sun machine running Solaris on my desk at work, and a Powerbook running OSX.
    I prefer my OSX G4 of all these, because I can run all the
    Linux software I need for work: tetex, gcc, etc, and use the standard office sw on the rare occasion that I need it.
    I have never had to reboot due to a system lockup in the
    two years I have had the PowerBook.

    penumbra

    > As a passionate Linux user for many years,
    > you may be surprised to hear that I agree
    > with almost everything you said. Linux is
    > the coolest thing since sliced bread, but
    > it's not for everyone (yet). I like to
    > compare Linux to a Swiss Army knife, Windows
    > to a butter knife. If all you need to do is
    > butter your bread, a butter knife is a lot
    > better tool for the job.

    > I wouldn't recommend Linux to any computer
    > user than only used office apps, browsed the
    > net, and chatted online unless he was fairly
    > computer savey. Linux doesn't do any of
    > those tasks better than Windows (although it
    > does all of those tasks almost as well) so
    > why go to the pain of learning something
    > new? By the same token, I think anybody is
    > insane to run a database or web server on
    > Windows as the Linux versions of these
    > applications are vastly superior, much more
    > secure, and completely free.

    > Linux is rapidly catching up to Windows in
    > the area of end user applications though.
    > Likewise, Windows is making improvements in
    > stability (I believe largely do from
    > pressure from the stability of Linux).
    > Eventually, Linux will become an extremely
    > user friendly OS with apps for everyone. And
    > eventually Windows will become a stable and
    > secure OS. So, it may not make much
    > difference which you use then (except that
    > Linux will cost a lot less).

    > This is only partly true. Windows is more
    > vulnerable because more script kiddies are
    > using Windows, they can get more of a
    > reaction from their virus writing because
    > there are more Windows users to get
    > infected, their viruses will spread more
    > easily because the average Windows user is
    > more clueless than the average Linux user
    > and will do more stupid stuff, AND because
    > Linux is a much better design and much less
    > vulnerable to viruses. No OS is completely
    > immune from vulnerabilities. But, you have
    > to be pretty smart and do a lot of work to
    > find a vulnerability in Linux, whereas any
    > 14 year old drop out with an afternoon to
    > spare could write a virus for Windows.
    > Furthermore, because Linux is open source,
    > many eyes are looking at the code. Most
    > potentional vulnerabilities in Linux are
    > found and fixed by nice people long before a
    > virus writer can exploit it.

  7. #7
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: Re: Canned BJ software

    > As a passionate Linux user for many years,
    > you may be surprised to hear that I agree
    > with almost everything you said.

    Not really; because that is the reality for a huge majority of the computing public.

    > Linux is the coolest thing since sliced bread, but it's not for everyone (yet).

    And from what I hear, I believe it and WISH I could use it. But until everyone in my universe starts using it; I have to be O_U_T out on it.

    > Linux is rapidly catching up to Windows in
    > the area of end user applications though.

    > Likewise, Windows is making improvements in
    > stability (I believe largely do from
    > pressure from the stability of Linux).

    Probably all true.

    > Eventually, Linux will become an extremely
    > user friendly OS with apps for everyone. And
    > eventually Windows will become a stable and
    > secure OS. So, it may not make much
    > difference which you use then (except that
    > Linux will cost a lot less).

    Maybe. Microsoft has about $20 billion in cash reserves -$20 billion!? Are you kidding me! If their train does not jump the tracks, they will always be hard to deal with.

    > Windows is more
    > vulnerable because more script kiddies are
    > using Windows,

    .. that's what I said. And why are they? Beacause ..

    > .. they can get more of a
    > reaction from their virus writing because
    > there are more Windows users to get
    > infected, their viruses will spread more
    > easily because the average Windows user is
    > more clueless than the average Linux user
    > and will do more stupid stuff,

    ..that's what I said.

    > AND because
    > Linux is a much better design and much less
    > vulnerable to viruses. No OS is completely
    > immune from vulnerabilities. But, you have
    > to be pretty smart and do a lot of work to
    > find a vulnerability in Linux, whereas any
    > 14 year old drop out with an afternoon to
    > spare could write a virus for Windows.
    > Furthermore, because Linux is open source,
    > many eyes are looking at the code. Most
    > potentional vulnerabilities in Linux are
    > found and fixed by nice people long before a
    > virus writer can exploit it.

    Maybe. I'm not educated enough to completely disagree with you .. I just believe that when the 14 year olds see they can get a big bang for the effort, they'll figure a way to hijack LINUX also. Just an opinion.

    Oh well, I've got OUTLOOK, EXCEL, an accounting program, MUSIC MATCH, and CVBJ all open while drifting on and off the net .. and my system locked about an hour ago.

    What are ya' gonna do? Buy more RAM I guess or trade in this two year old Toshiba!


  8. #8
    Cacarulo
    Guest

    Cacarulo: Re: Unhappy Linux user

    > I switched the qfit.com website from Windows
    > to Linux about 18 months ago and was not at
    > all happy with the change for one reason
    > that may sound trivial. Linux file names are
    > case sensitive. I think this is insane.
    > Immediately, I found that links from around
    > the web started failing. For example, sites
    > linking to my calculators page used the
    > names calcp, Calcp and CalcP. Worked great
    > in Windows, fails in Linux. Also, I have to
    > make it clear to anyone on the phone exactly
    > how to type a pagename. In my error logs I
    > often see people using incorrect cases. This
    > is also one of my major gripes with C. The
    > language is not only case sensitive; they
    > actually have different functions with the
    > same name but different cases and multiple
    > variables can have the same name with
    > different cases. Couldn't believe it when I
    > first read it.

    If that was all the problem then a simple script would have solved the problem

    #!/bin/bash 
    for i in *
    do
    j=`echo $i | tr '[a-z]' '[A-Z]'`
    mv $i $j
    done


    The script simply transforms any filename to the same name but in capital letters! That way you would have just used one CALCP.
    Come on, go back to APACHE

    Sincerely,
    Cac

  9. #9
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: Re: Unhappy Linux user

    > If that was all the problem then a simple
    > script would have solved the problem
    > #!/bin/bash
    > for i in *
    > do
    > j=`echo $i | tr '[a-z]' '[A-Z]'`
    > mv $i $j

    Sure, try splainin' this to grandma when she calls and her email ain't working' right because she can't 'see' Aunt Sara's receipe!


  10. #10
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: Unhappy Linux user

    > Of course if you'd started with Linux,
    > people would have noticed immediately that
    > their links were wrong and fixed them.
    > Switching OS's is never painless. I'm sure
    > there would be things that would have driven
    > you just as mad if you'd started out with
    > Linux and switched to Windows.

    Actually I did start with Linux in 1996. I switched to Windows around 2001 seemlessly and was very happy with the switch. I switched back because my host didn't have enough bandwidth.

    > There is an option in Apache to make your
    > URLs case insensitive. It can even correct
    > misspelled URL's.

    I haven't been able to find it and my host isn't aware of it.

    > Most languages used today other than VB are
    > case sensitive.

    Almost none were in the past. I've used dozens of languages over the decades and C is the first I remember with case sensitivity. Admittedly my memory is a bit fuzzy on older languages. Perhaps APL and/or RPG. The languages that have grown out of C: C++, Java, Python, Perl, are case sensitive. And you will find duplicate keywords like Int and int in Python. I think Float and float have different meanings and uses in J++. Mind-boggling stupidity IMO. Picture trying to make sense out of a thread with four people named parker, Parker, PARKER and PARKer.

  11. #11
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: Unhappy Linux user

    Shared server. I don't have access to Apache.

  12. #12
    paranoid android
    Guest

    paranoid android: Re: Unhappy Linux user

    > I haven't been able to find it and my host
    > isn't aware of it.

    How hard did you look? ;-)

    CheckSpelling on

    I believe there are other methods for solving this problem as well, but this is the first one I found.

  13. #13
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: Unhappy Linux user

    Thanks, but I don't have access to that.

    > How hard did you look? ;-)

    > CheckSpelling on

    > I believe there are other methods for
    > solving this problem as well, but this is
    > the first one I found.

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