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Thread: AutomaticMonkey: Beware preferential shuffle at John Ascuaga's Nugget

  1. #1
    AutomaticMonkey
    Guest

    AutomaticMonkey: Beware preferential shuffle at John Ascuaga's Nugget

    Playing in Sparks, some dealers in this place give RO7 while some give RO6. However with one dealer, I could have sworn I was getting RO6 on good counts and RO7 on bad ones. When I outright asked the dealer how many rounds she deals per deck (I was playing heads-up) she mumbled something about the cut card that doesn't make sense. I wouldn't play a SD game against cut-card effect without a good reason. Maybe my mind was playing tricks on me, but the combination of what I was seeing plus the disingenuous response made me leave the game.

    Also, when in Sparks avoid Rail City. It is a dinky, cheap, ultra-paranoid place. I was backed off in a couple of minutes and treated shabbily afterward. Not worth playing.

  2. #2
    Trapper
    Guest

    Trapper: Cut card?

    There would be no cut card if the dealer was determing penetration by rounds (RO6, Ro7), right?

    If the dealer was shuffling up on good counts wouldn't you have seen less than RO6 on some decks? If she was waiting until after the six round to shuffle up she would still be offering you a beatable game. Is preferential shuffling ever that subtle?

  3. #3
    i like S17
    Guest

    i like S17: Or play two spots

    If heads up, Ro6 would get you 8 hands, better pen than Ro7...only getting 2-4 hands heads up is PS, not Ro6 IMO.

  4. #4
    Karl D
    Guest

    Karl D: Annoying SD shuffle

    Happens a lot in Reno, getting an extra 7th round when count is low and on average fewer cards have been played. Although there is no physical cut card, the cut card effect still costs us money and it's really annoying. I don't think many dealers coun the number of rounds in heads-up play but solely base the re-shuffle on his feeling of the thickness of the remainder of the deck and also factors in the number of hands in play. This may not always be intentional pref. shuffle but simply that the number of cards drawn does correlate with the count. Also If there happens to be one or more splits during a deck you are likely to get one less round.

    To what extent this happens of course is very dealer dependent If I have a new dealer in Reno I usually need to play or watch him/her for a number of decks so I can learn to predict the shuffle time of that particular dealer. In general I have noticed that there is a tendency that machine shuffled SD games get shuffled earlier than hand shuffled games. As mentioned above, depending on dealer if this happens too often you may be better off playing two hands since you are less likely to see as many deviations from 4 rounds to 2 as you are between 6 to 1 and 7 to 1.

    I would be more suspicious if the dealer suddenly shuffled up after say only 3 or 4 rounds and it happens to be in conjunction with the count or a bet raise, which I have seen in some of the smaller casinos in Reno. That type of Pref. shuffle of course is outright cheating.


  5. #5
    AutomaticMonkey
    Guest

    AutomaticMonkey: Not sure if it's cheating

    > Happens a lot in Reno, getting an extra 7th round when
    > count is low and on average fewer cards have been
    > played. Although there is no physical cut card, the
    > cut card effect still costs us money and it's really
    > annoying. I don't think many dealers coun the number
    > of rounds in heads-up play but solely base the
    > re-shuffle on his feeling of the thickness of the
    > remainder of the deck and also factors in the number
    > of hands in play. This may not always be intentional
    > pref. shuffle but simply that the number of cards
    > drawn does correlate with the count. Also If there
    > happens to be one or more splits during a deck you are
    > likely to get one less round.

    > To what extent this happens of course is very dealer
    > dependent If I have a new dealer in Reno I usually
    > need to play or watch him/her for a number of decks so
    > I can learn to predict the shuffle time of that
    > particular dealer. In general I have noticed that
    > there is a tendency that machine shuffled SD games get
    > shuffled earlier than hand shuffled games. As
    > mentioned above, depending on dealer if this happens
    > too often you may be better off playing two hands
    > since you are less likely to see as many deviations
    > from 4 rounds to 2 as you are between 6 to 1 and 7 to
    > 1.

    > I would be more suspicious if the dealer suddenly
    > shuffled up after say only 3 or 4 rounds and it
    > happens to be in conjunction with the count or a bet
    > raise, which I have seen in some of the smaller
    > casinos in Reno. That type of Pref. shuffle of course
    > is outright cheating.

    My understanding is that if you are allowed to count cards, so is the dealer, and the dealer can shuffle any time he wants, as long as he is not using a device or other illegal method. I can live with that and find another dealer.

    On the good side, I found a few dealers who were dealing something like RO6 but with the number of players at the table, instead of the number of hands. So if I am playing heads-up, I get RO6 with one hand and RO7 with two. That's a very good situation.

  6. #6
    Karl D
    Guest

    Karl D: Re: Not sure if it's cheating

    > My understanding is that if you are allowed to count
    > cards, so is the dealer, and the dealer can shuffle
    > any time he wants, as long as he is not using a device
    > or other illegal method. I can live with that and find
    > another dealer.


    Well, using a shuffle card or shuffle as soon as a certain number of cards have been played in SD of course cannot be considered cheating if it's done consistently.
    On the other hand, if the dealer would count and always shuffle as soon as the count goes positive and keep dealing if negative, he changes the normal distribution of card compositions and the randomness of the game, which could fall under some law about requirement of randomness in a game of chance. Of course, I'm no lawyer but this sure looks like cheating to me, although it would be hard to prove in a court. This procedure would have similar effect as short stacking the deck.

  7. #7
    FLASH
    Guest

    FLASH: Outright Cheating at John Ascuaga's Nugget

    In the mid 80's I was cheated at The Nugget after showing smart play with Black Action at their juicy Single Deck games. They sent in a female dealer who dealt herself 4 consecutive Snappers and after the second and forth said: "Had enough?" Think about that. There are only 4 aces. Afterwards, that day, I spoke about this with the (now deceased) proprietor of the Gambler's Bookstore on Virginia Street, who said that for many years he worked surveillance at J.A.'s Nugget, and that I was very CERTAINLY cheated.

  8. #8
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Times have changed

    First, let's make it perfectly clear that we're discussing something that happened 20 years ago. No one is suggesting that JA Nugget is cheating today.

    Back in the days when the casinos were still being run by the mob, it was indeed not uncommon for each one to employ a "bust-out" dealer or two. He/she was a skilled card mechanic who would quickly relieve an AP of his/her bankroll, or even someone who was simply enjoying a hot streak. In Beat the Dealer, Professor Thorp described widespread casino cheating.

    However, while I never completely rule out the possibility of dealer cheating, it has largely gone the way of S17 single deck games dealt to the last few cards.

    Preferential shuffling is a different matter entirely. While this had been widely discussed, and many AP's consider it to be a form of casino cheating, courts in Nevada and elsewhere have generally ruled it to be perfectly legal. It is not uncommon, especially in games in which no cut card is used.


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