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Thread: YaleMoto: Cal. Indian Back Offs?

  1. #1
    YaleMoto
    Guest

    YaleMoto: Cal. Indian Back Offs?

    Do California Indian Casinos back off or bar players? Does anyone have experience with this?
    I have been playing through shifts - sometimes over 12 hours - and winning and have not been backed off. (I know this is ill advised, but the Cal. casinos are spread out unlike LV.) Are the Cal. Indian Casinos so concerned regarding their image with all of the legislation they have been lobbying for that they do not want to make waves barring Cal. residents? Also the dealers take their own tokes and some of the dealers also work in the pit - could this have a positive effect on allowing APs to play?

  2. #2
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: California Backin'

    They most certainly do back off advantage players. Trust me on this one.

    Back-offs are usually extremely polite, with being flat-bet or being placed on a restricted spread sometimes used instead of the usual "You're welcome to play any game except blackjack."

    Outright barrings and 86'ings are rare, usually only happening to those who have previously been backed off more than once, and/or are listed in Griffin, etc.

    A few casinos, most notably Barona in the San Diego area, have a somewhat enlightened attitude toward low/mid level counters. If your max bet isn't more than $300 or so, you toke the dealers occasionally and don't annoy anyone or get too brazen, they will usually leave you alone.

    BTW, dealers pool tokes at many of the CA casinos.

    Dual-rate dealers (dealers who also work the pit) are generally bad news. They are very career-oriented, and often consider identifying advantage players to be a good way to impress their superiors.

  3. #3
    Victoria
    Guest

    Victoria: Re: California Backin'

    I have not been backed off but have had the pleasure of being half shoed, flat bet, and limited on spread in Cal Casinos. Most of the places I play currently would be similar to Barona in that if your max bet is not too large they just let you play. One place that was tolerant went from cutting 1 to 1.5 decks to cutting 2.5.
    I agree about dual rates. They no longer fit into the description of just a person doing his job dealing. They are looking to move up the corporate ladder and if they think they might earn a few points by identifying you, they certainly will. They are doubly dangerous to non toking AP's for obvious reasons.
    Victoria

  4. #4
    Brick
    Guest

    Brick: Re: California Backin'

    > I have not been backed off but have had the
    > pleasure of being half shoed, flat bet, and
    > limited on spread in Cal Casinos.

    Being flat-betted,may not be a barring, but it's definitely what I would consider to be a back-off.

  5. #5
    Victoria
    Guest

    Victoria: Re: California Backin'

    The same can be said for cutting off more than half the shoe.

    > Being flat-betted,may not be a barring, but
    > it's definitely what I would consider to be
    > a back-off.

  6. #6
    Brick
    Guest

    Brick: Re:

    > The same can be said for cutting off more
    > than half the shoe.

    Vicky,I really dont consider being half-shoed a backoff. I look at it as a nothing but a counter-measure that can be a nuisance. If you get half shoed,it's best to ignore this casino trick and act like you're not even aware of what's been done,then lighten up and take a break shortly after. In other words,call the potential bluff,then fold your cards. Dont be surprised if next time you play,things seem to be normal. There's no need to cause (as Bettie would say a Hullaballoo.

  7. #7
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: Back offs / Half shoes

    A short version of a Don's Domain story ...

    Guy sits down and starts betting/spreading large in AC. The suits show up and after awhile the shoe gets cut in half. He knows it's intended for him and he starts getting a little wet around the collar, but mostly just hacked they got on to him so quickly. Decides, as Brick suggests, to call the bluff, play out the shoe, and leave quietly.

    Before he has the chance, the guy at third base colors up and beats it for the door. All the suits go running after him.

    It may not always be about you.

  8. #8
    Victoria
    Guest

    Victoria: Re:

    I meant to compare half shoeing with flat betting. Both are not backoffs, but both would shortly end your session. The biggest difference to me between being flat bet and half shoed, is if they know you, the flat bet is probably recorded while the half shoe seems more like a measure the current pit used and may not appear if you return on the next shift.

    > Vicky,I really dont consider being
    > half-shoed a backoff. I look at it as a
    > nothing but a counter-measure that can be a
    > nuisance. If you get half shoed,it's best to
    > ignore this casino trick and act like you're
    > not even aware of what's been done,then
    > lighten up and take a break shortly after.
    > In other words,call the potential bluff,then
    > fold your cards. Dont be surprised if next
    > time you play,things seem to be normal.
    > There's no need to cause (as Bettie would
    > say a Hullaballoo.

  9. #9
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: A difference

    If you're flat-bet, there is no doubt that they are definitely onto you.

    However, a pitboss may tell a dealer to cut the shoe in half just to see how you will react.

    If you play on, showing no reaction, they may decide that you are okay, or you might at least buy some time.

  10. #10
    Brick
    Guest

    Brick: Re:

    Something else to be aware of ... at times there may not even be a specific player targeted. I've played at a few sweaty casinos that actually had voodoo pitbosses asking dealers to half-shoe(and/or)bring in new decks because the table was dumping. They somehow think this will change the flow.

    I tell you SR,I wonder what would have happen if the other guy at the table would have caused a big stink over the half-shoe? He may have awakened a sleeping giant?


  11. #11
    Brick
    Guest

    Brick: Re:

    I consider being flat-betted to be much more serious when being compared to half-shoed,no doubt. As I said before,it's back off in my books,but hey,who cares!

    > I meant to compare half shoeing with flat
    > betting. Both are not backoffs, but both
    > would shortly end your session. The biggest
    > difference to me between being flat bet and
    > half shoed, is if they know you, the flat
    > bet is probably recorded while the half shoe
    > seems more like a measure the current pit
    > used and may not appear if you return on the
    > next shift.

  12. #12
    gambler
    Guest

    gambler: Re:

    > I consider being flat-betted to be much more
    > serious when being compared to half-shoed,no
    > doubt. As I said before,it's back off in my
    > books,but hey,who cares!

    They halfshoed me in Europe.
    I continued winning. Then they gave me 2,5 decks from 6 to play. I continued winning. In my last session, they gave me incredible 1,5 from 6 to play. I took another Euro 800 in 20 min. and left.

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