> Two separate posters, or at least posts
> coming from two separate computers in
> different geographic areas
Precisely why, as a rule, I rarely post. I think it's greatly unappreciated in how a person's privacy is maintained, even when I have the utmost respect for many people who are attempting a sincere and often underappreciated endeavor such as hosting AP type sites. That said, it would be wise for many to understand that their privacy can, in fact, be compromised. Also, since I have taken [what I call a risk] in posting, albeit infrequently unless I take other precautions, such as this message, maybe the fine people who host these sites will properly explain how they maintain the integrity of their servers, as well as how the server logs [of web visitors] is maintained and/or stored so as not to allow any unauthorized release of this information with the obvious exception of 1) a court order 2) the potential denying of either spam related IP addresses, or banned IP addresses due to inappropriate posts as deemed by management. Both of which are certainly reasonable reasons to take action against site access. However, rarely are the privacy rules stated with such clarity, which makes for a certain lack of trust for those who are, in fact, familiar with this process.
Parker, thank you for taking the time to moderate this part of Don's domain, but, although you were being truthful in answering the two "coug" questions, you told the world that you can track [which everyone should know but probably doesn't-which neccessitates the need for privacy clarifications] who people are. If this information was to ever fall into unscrupulous casino hands, those AP players would be toast.
Just my obviously not humble opinion.
Thanks
bfb
RGE PUblishing, LTD's privacy policy (Advantageplayer.com is owned by RGE Publishing, LTD) is clearly stated in the link found in the top frame toward the right. I have also provided a link below.
I will let Viktor address the issue of server security (if he so chooses). However, knowing Viktor, I am confident that adequate measures have been taken to protect our server database.
Anyone posting on any sort of message board site should be aware that site administrators can see the IP address of the computer that they are posting from. Using a program called "Traceroute" (included with most operating system software) it is possible to determine what geographic area a person is posting from. How specific this can be pinned down varies, depending on the address. Usually it is not more specific than the city one is posting from.
Of course, it is our policy not do disclose such information - note that I did not specify which geographic areas the "two cougs" were posting from.
> RGE PUblishing, LTD's privacy policy
> (Advantageplayer.com is owned by RGE
> Publishing, LTD) is clearly stated in the
> link found in the top frame toward the
> right. I have also provided a link below.
My comments were educational in nature and not any criticism of RGE per se. What provoked the reaction to my actually commenting wasn't necessarily privacy, although that should always be "the most important" element of internet usage, but to answer the question as to why there were two different "cougs." The truth is, it very well could be the same individual for multiple reasons. None of which I'll share with anyone, as to too much knowledge can sometimes be a "bad" thing.I just think that with the information that you were armed with you could have merely said they were different [pointed to the RGE's privacy link] and left it at that.
I apologize if that seems as a criticism. It's not meant to be. I just happen to be an extremist when it comes to privacy issues. It's actually a very important element of freedom, which is why the good ole USA is the best place to be fortunate to have been born. 'nough said there [and please no political diatribes need be necessary
> I will let Viktor address the issue of
> server security (if he so chooses). However,
> knowing Viktor, I am confident that adequate
> measures have been taken to protect our
> server database.
As it should be, and I'm hopeful it is. Every once in awhile it's not a bad thing to let people know that security and privacy is "high" on the list of priorities when the internet is the issue.
> Anyone posting on any sort of message board
> site should be aware that site
> administrators can see the IP address of the
> computer that they are posting from.
Well, that's really the crux isn't it. See above comments.
Using a
> program called "Traceroute"
> (included with most operating system
> software) it is possible to determine what
> geographic area a person is posting from.
> How specific this can be pinned down varies,
> depending on the address. Usually it is not
> more specific than the city one is posting
> from.
Actually, not true. Yes, traceroute in and of itself can't do much more, but that is only the beginning.
> Of course, it is our policy not do disclose
> such information - note that I did not
> specify which geographic areas the
> "two cougs" were posting from.
And yes, you are right, but that was, in fact, my point. [Again, see above comments]
To close, I'll merely say that privacy is in itself a very sensitive issue. You were merely being helpful, as you always are, from what I know. And that's a good thing, not bad. In this case I think it was just a little more info than anyone needed to know, and it should be left at that.
Again, thanks for your work, as well as to Don, and yes, Victor.
bfb
> Two separate posters, or at least posts
> coming from two separate computers in
> different geographic areas.
For the record, I am not the same person as the "Coug It" poster. I actually consider the phrase "Coug It" to be a bit derogatory, and would never consider using such a phrase.
On the internet, you roll the dice and you take your chance.
> .. it would be wise for many to understand that their privacy can, in fact, be compromised.
If you are on the internet in the year 2003, and you don't already know that almost anybody that wants to bad enough can track your comings and goings, then you, like Rip Van Winkle, just woke up.
> However, rarely are the privacy rules stated with such clarity which makes for a certain lack of
> trust for those who are, in fact, familiar with this process.
And so what if the Privacy Rules of a particular site are stated clearly and concisely? If you are relying on that, well, see the above.
Privacy Rules are, in the final analysis, a joke. Say a site has the clearest most broadly sweeping rules ever adopted. And at the time they had the good intention of abiding by them.
Boards of Directors change. Management changes. The Security or the IT people change or quit caring or just go bad (ask Bill Bennett.)
Or, the company owning the site has maintained 100% credibility in it's Privacy Rules, but then, goes bankrupt. The companies creditors inherit the "mailing lists", which are an asset of the company, in the dissolution. They are under no obligation to respect the company's Privacy Rules.
Bottom line: if you need to hide, and hide good, you better stay away; unless you are a geek yourself.
I can't say for sure, but I think it is possible for a site like this to capture my IP address just by my logging on and reading posts in the background.
And if I had a reason to care I should not rely on their "Privacy Policy."
BFBAGAIN, if your privacy issues are so extreme, and I am certainly not implying they are not, you might should consider logging on at an Internet Cafe, a friend's house, or a neighbor who does not play BJ.
At the end of the day, you decide to trust those in charge -Viktor, Parker, etc. -and then you roll the dice and you take your chance.
Or you don't.
> My comments were educational in nature and
> not any criticism of RGE per se. What
> provoked the reaction to my actually
> commenting wasn't necessarily privacy,
> although that should always be "the
> most important" element of internet
> usage, but to answer the question as to why
> there were two different "cougs."
> The truth is, it very well could be the same
> individual for multiple reasons. None of
> which I'll share with anyone, as to too much
> knowledge can sometimes be a "bad"
> thing.
> information that you were armed with you
> could have merely said they were different
> [pointed to the RGE's privacy link] and left
> it at that.
With the benefit of hindsight and a little reflection, I must agree. You are absolutely right. I revealed more information than was necessary. My apologies to both "cougs."
> I apologize if that seems as a criticism.
> It's not meant to be. I just happen to be an
> extremist when it comes to privacy issues.
> It's actually a very important element of
> freedom, which is why the good ole USA is
> the best place to be fortunate to have been
> born. 'nough said there [and please no
> political diatribes need be necessary
No argument here. I appreciate your raising the issue.
> Actually, not true. Yes, traceroute in and
> of itself can't do much more, but that is
> only the beginning.
True. My point was that nearly everyone has traceroute on their system, whether they realize it or not. Anyone can trace an IP address.
> To close, I'll merely say that privacy is in
> itself a very sensitive issue. You were
> merely being helpful, as you always are,
> from what I know. And that's a good thing,
> not bad. In this case I think it was just a
> little more info than anyone needed to know,
> and it should be left at that.
We are in complete agreement.
> Again, thanks for your work, as well as to
> Don, and yes, Victor.
Thanks for the kind words.
Obviously, I can't speak for Coug It since I don't have the vaguest notion of who he/she is.
I have posted on numerous occasions about where I play, and Coug It has his/her playing location in his/her profile, so I don't think that either of us is too worried about keeping this information confidential.
> At the end of the day, you decide to trust
> those in charge -Viktor, Parker, etc. -and
> then you roll the dice and you take your
> chance.
Many excellent points. We mean what we say in Privacy Policy, but so many things can change. And ultimately, your privacy is up to you. If you're really concerned, you should read my "Online Security for Advantage Players" series in BJF. I beleive we still have plenty of those issues.
The main thing we do on the server side to protect you is that we keep our accounting and customer service on a computer offline from the Internet. To connect you to your account, we only list your RGE customer number in the server user database.
Good Cards,
V
There are many "cougars" but anytime you hear the term "coug", it refers to Washington State University. The term "coug-it" harkens back to the days when WSU had poor teams because, when they would blow a chance to win, the term was used to state that they "coug'd-it"
Of course, you don't hear the term "coug-it" much anymore now that they are the only Pac-10 school to have gone to the rose bowl twice in the last 5 years. Nowadays, it's verrryyy cool to be a coug... many UW huskies are denouncing the idea of being a run-of-the-mill, big-school, dawg and pulling for the little school that rises up out of the open spaces of the palouse to slay the big-uglies of the nation.. much like everyone's pulling for Gonzaga in basketball these days.
So yes, that's why everybody wants "coug" in their handle... even me!!
Spokanimal
> Whats with the two cougs I have seen posts
> by Coug Fan on this site and others is that
> you posting under coug it or are you two
> different people? Just wondering. By the way
> is that the Jackson county elementry school
> cougars that is where my yongest son goes.
> SM
....big-school, dawg and pulling for the little school that rises up out of the open spaces of the palouse to slay the big-uglies of the nation..
You have made a few statements that stretched credibility slightly in the past, but this is over the edge. Dawgs root for the Dawgs and 70-75% hate the Cougars - and would hate them even if they had been to the last 5 consecutive Rose Bowls.
> So yes, that's why everybody wants
> "coug" in their handle... even
> me!!
Not everyone.
> ....big-school, dawg and pulling for the
> little school that rises up out of the open
> spaces of the palouse to slay the big-uglies
> of the nation..
The other fallacy here is that Wazzu no longer Cougs it. On the contrary, just last year, they coug'd it in the Apple Cup, and then of course, Mike Price did the All-Time Dream Job Coug-It down in Florida.
(o'course, I personally respect the guy who gets fired over booze and strippers over the guy who gets fired over betting $5,000 on college sports -- but that's just me..)
Posting Permissions
-*-
Bookmarks