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Thread: Luigi: Enclosed CSMs and TC/Counting Method Question?

  1. #1
    Luigi
    Guest

    Luigi: Enclosed CSMs and TC/Counting Method Question?

    I’m new to the study of BJ and wanted to get opinions about which counting method is best for novice players when playing at BJ tables with CSMs. I was at Pechanga (Temecula CA) yesterday just surveying (did not play) the BJ tables and noticed that the tables are equipped with CSMs which enclose from view the decks and thus prevented the player from calculating the remaining deck(s) in the shoe to calculate TC. But I also realized that the dealer emptied the discard tray after each hand and re-inserted the discarded cards back into the CSM.

    Do most casinos use CSMs?
    Should we avoid such tables or are there counting methods applicable for games that use CSMs?
    How reliable is computing TC at BJ tables with “closed” CSMs when the discard tray is practically emptied after each hand?
    Without having to ask the dealer how many decks are in the shoe, how can a player determine that and is asking for such information a giveaway that I’m planning to count cards or is it something any “normal” player would want to know?

    In advance thank you for your comments.

  2. #2
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Re: Enclosed CSMs and TC/Counting Method Question?

    > I’m new to the study of BJ and wanted to get
    > opinions about which counting method is best for
    > novice players when playing at BJ tables with CSMs. I
    > was at Pechanga (Temecula CA) yesterday just surveying
    > (did not play) the BJ tables and noticed that the
    > tables are equipped with CSMs which enclose from view
    > the decks and thus prevented the player from
    > calculating the remaining deck(s) in the shoe to
    > calculate TC. But I also realized that the dealer
    > emptied the discard tray after each hand and
    > re-inserted the discarded cards back into the CSM.

    > Do most casinos use CSMs?

    They are quite common, especially at low limit tables. Fortunately, few casinos use them exclusively.

    Scattered among the sea of CSM's at Pechanga you will find about a dozen 6 deck shoes and about 8 double deck tables. The 6 deck games are playable if you can find a dealer giving decent penetration, although you'd probably be better off driving on to Pala.

    > Should we avoid such tables or are there counting
    > methods applicable for games that use CSMs?

    Avoid them like the plague that they are.

    > How reliable is computing TC at BJ tables with
    > “closed” CSMs when the discard tray is
    > practically emptied after each hand?

    Card counting is essentially useless against a CSM.

    > Without having to ask the dealer how many decks are in
    > the shoe, how can a player determine that and is
    > asking for such information a giveaway that I’m
    > planning to count cards or is it something any
    > “normal” player would want to know?

    There is no "shoe" in a CSM. Asking how many decks are used will not draw any attention, since CSM's are uncountable.

    Fortunately, card counters are not the only players with an aversion to CSM's. After all, how can a player find a "hot shoe" when the "shoe" never begins or ends?

    > In advance thank you for your comments.

    You're welcome.

  3. #3
    THE PLAYER
    Guest

    THE PLAYER: Re: Enclosed CSMs and TC/Counting Method Question?

    > There is no "shoe" in a CSM. Asking how many
    > decks are used will not draw any attention, since
    > CSM's are uncountable.

    There is small display at the "one2six" csm, which shows the number of decks during the shuffle procedure.

  4. #4
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: Re: Enclosed CSMs and TC/Counting Method Question?

    That's not technically a CSM, but instead a machine that shuffles up 6 decks and spits out 1 (or 2) for play. At the end of that "deck," it's all put back into the machine, shuffled again, and then spits out another deck for play. Still, completely uncountable.

    Bettie

    > There is small display at the "one2six" csm,
    > which shows the number of decks during the shuffle
    > procedure.

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