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Thread: Little Ben: Bad advice????

  1. #1
    Little Ben
    Guest

    Little Ben: Bad advice????

    Hi there everybody how?s it going? I was propping up the bar a few months ago in a Blackjack Tournament when I got talking to one of the local players. Anyway, I?d never dismiss anyone?s advice; good or bad, but he advised me to get into tournament play as soon as possible.
    In his drunken rambling he said that the best start a counter could get was to get ?out there under the pressure? and try my best in a tournament. He went on to say that it?s the best practice you could possibly get, especially when you think you?re ready for the casino.
    I think I can see where he?s coming from; there may be drunken people shouting at you and all eyes may be on your play. From a financial perspective it seems the better option, I rather lose the entry fee that my bankroll.

    How many of you have started with Tournaments to then move to the tables at a later date?

    Happy New Year.

    Little Ben.

  2. #2
    Ouchez
    Guest

    Ouchez: Re: Bad advice????

    > How many of you have started with Tournaments to then
    > move to the tables at a later date?

    > Happy New Year.

    > Little Ben.

    Ben,

    From what I see a lot of tourney players do not play much serious regular BJ, some non at all. I think some have lost their bankroll in regular play and then turn to tourneys to try to get a bankroll back.

    If you desire to play a tourney read a good boog about tourney play and just do it, no harm can come of it and you may win some money.

    Be warned that tourney play can get very personal between players and because of this I have seen some ugly incidents between players.

    I much prefer to go directly against the house.

    Also get a good software program like what Norm offers,

    Ouchez.

  3. #3
    fatcat519
    Guest

    fatcat519: Re: Bad advice????

    From my limited experience in BJ tournament play, I would say that betting and playing strategies are so different between tournament and regular BJ that starting with tournament play wouldn't help much and might even lead to bad habits in your regular play.
    Learning the two types the other way around makes more sense to me.
    Tournament play can be exciting and fun.
    Ouchez has given you good advice.

  4. #4
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: Re: Bad advice????

    > .. but he advised me to get into tournament play ..

    I think that is good advice.

    Maybe not to the exclusion of regular play but why not do both? Great local straight counting blackjack games are not as great as they used to be.

    Keep in mind tournament play is much different than regular play, you'll need to possibly work on it some, but depending on where you are and who is in these tournaments:

    --the entry fees are generally manageable simply out of pocket.

    --with so many running to the poker room now days, the local small BJ tournament contenders are many times pathetically poor players; but they do suck out!

    --placing in a tournament or two can be a big shot to a small bankroll.

    --you do get exposed to a different environment than regular play.

    You'll hear people say it does no good to count a tournament. Especially in the early rounds, why not? There are advantages to counting the early rounds and you can get some good practice.

    Some will say it might expose you to the casino as an 'advantage player' and get you barred from the regular games. I doubt you are there yet, just from your question.

    I see no reason to not do both.

    Good luck.

  5. #5
    MrPill
    Guest

    MrPill: Re: Bad advice????

    > Ben,

    > From what I see a lot of tourney players do not play
    > much serious regular BJ, ............
    > Ouchez.

    Ouchez,

    Of course there are some exceptions! :-)

    Pill

    P.S. I see the "Bash" is back on, see ya.

  6. #6
    MrPill
    Guest

    MrPill: Re: Bad advice????

    > Hi there everybody how?s it going? I was propping up
    > the bar a few months ago in a Blackjack Tournament
    > when I got talking to one of the local players.
    > Anyway, I?d never dismiss anyone?s advice; good or
    > bad, but he advised me to get into tournament play as
    > soon as possible.
    > In his drunken rambling he said that the best start a
    > counter could get was to get ?out there under the
    > pressure? and try my best in a tournament. He went on
    > to say that it?s the best practice you could possibly
    > get, especially when you think you?re ready for the
    > casino.
    > I think I can see where he?s coming from; there may be
    > drunken people shouting at you and all eyes may be on
    > your play. From a financial perspective it seems the
    > better option, I rather lose the entry fee that my
    > bankroll.

    > How many of you have started with Tournaments to then
    > move to the tables at a later date?

    > Happy New Year.

    > Little Ben.

    Ben,

    It is a different kind of pressure. If you have low entry tournies available to you I would say fine. It is a good way to get comfortable with play and processing all the other things going on around you. As the others have mentioned though it is a totally different game. You need to study it a little before trying it, unless you are only relying on luck.

    I would avoid playing higher entry tournies though (>$100) until you get some tourney experience. Practice/study does pay off during tourny play. I also would not waste your mental resources counting with tourney play. IMO it is all about knowing the other player bankrolls and betting properly. Maximizing your risk.

    Pill

  7. #7
    Little Ben
    Guest

    Little Ben: Re: Bad advice????

    > Some will say it might expose you to the casino as an
    > 'advantage player' and get you barred from the regular
    > games. I doubt you are there yet, just from your
    > question.

    Nope, I'm far from an advantage player. Most of the time my basic strategy is spot on and when counting I can adjust my bets accordingly. I?ve won a small amount but I don?t think I get enough hours in at the casino to be classed as a serious counter.

    Anyway, my local casino in the U.K is really quite small and really only caters for Blackjack, Roulette and Poker. The buzz in the casino at the moment is all about Poker. The tournaments are held on week nights and tend to draw more of a crowd than the weekend gamblers. From what I?ve been told; people tend to enter the Blackjack Tournaments when they can?t get into the Poker Tournaments. In addition to this most of the local gamblers are under the impression that Blackjack is a waste of time and that the return is so small, playing Blackjack is pointless. It?s these people that tend to pull their hair out and shout with frustration when they see me stand on H13 v 5.

    It may appear a tad over confident but I feel that when I play a Blackjack Tournament in our tiny casino, I?ll be up against a majority who are playing because they?ve nothing else better to do and will be playing with a poker mentality. I?ve decided to purchase a copy of Stanford Wong?s Casino Tournament Strategy and hopefully win a few pounds.

    Thanks for the advice, it?s greatly appreciated.

    Little Ben.


  8. #8
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: More tournie stuff re: counting

    > Nope, I'm far from an advantage player. Most of the time my basic strategy is spot on and when counting I
    > can adjust my bets accordingly. I?ve won a small amount ..

    Give yourself a break, you are an advantage player. Far from professional, maybe not even serious, but you have set yourself apart from the nimrods showing up depending only on luck. Good for you.

    Glad to see your local conditions for a BJ tourney are as what I thought they might be. Still, with variance being what it is, it's not like shooting fish in a barrel, but be patient, you will place in the money more times than you ratably should.

    I would like to elaborate on counting in tournaments.

    The illustrious Mr. Pill has won his fair share, no doubt, and I agree that counting in tournaments has limited utility. In the final hands of any round when a winner(s) will de declared, counting must take a back seat .. probably abandonded entirely .. to keeping chip counts and position straight. The late rounds are certainly more about position play and betting properly than they are about the cards.

    But counting has utility when you can find it. Two examples:

    #1 -when they first started doing BJ tournies in my neighborhood, they didn't really know how to do them right. They had a lot of people, few tables, and you could actually watch the preliminary round ahead of you play before you sat down. As it turns out, it took about two full shoes to do one prelim round. So you show up early, watch/count/segment track the last shoe, sit down for your prelim round, watch them shuffle (it was painfully lax as this was just a local small dollar tournie), AND THEN THEY LET ONE OF US CUT!! Even if I didn't get to cut, I had a pretty good idea of what part of the shoe would be good to take a shot. (BTW, that didn't last long. One of the nimrods actually finally figured out he might be at a disadvantage!!)

    #2. -take a small local tournie where there are only 15 to 25 hands a round. Let's use 15, the same principle applies. With a six deck shoe, cut to 75% they are almost guaranteed gonna have to shuffle between hands 8 and 10. Depending on how things have gone to that point, you may be way up, way down, or in the mix. I've been way down before, known the shoe was red hot and the last hand coming, and bet the max. You've got to take a shot in any tournie and it's always better to get your money in KNOWING you have the best of it. In this case, if I'm still in (!) I'll abandon counting and start playing the players. But with a little more work/study/effort on your part at home, if you are still in after the shuffle, and if you counted and at least just segment tracked the first shoe, you should have a decent idea of how bad or good those last four to six hands in your round are gonna be AND it might help you play against all those readers of Wong because you KNOW what they will be doing. (This of course assumes you have also read and studied Wong's book. You have to. It's good stuff and not all those you will be playing against are nimrods or bored poker players.)

    Just two examples. Maybe they don't apply directly to your locale, maybe your place uses CSMs, but don't count 'counting' out until you know it won't give you dependable usefull information.

    Keep your eyes open and remember, information is king and the more you have compared to them the better off you'll do long term.

    Good luck.

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