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Thread: Designated Driver: Reducing ROR while maintaining EV

  1. #27
    Trapper
    Guest

    Trapper: Good advise

    > However $500 is enough for online play.
    > blackjackforumonline.com has a very good forum for
    > bonus hustling and in a couple of months you can
    > easily turn your $500 into $1000 or $2000.

    Online play is a much easier and less stressful way to build a bankroll if you are starting with almost nothing. Expenses aren't an issue. There is good advice on the Blackjackforumonline.com which AM recommended. Norm has a very good intro on his QFIT site. Bonus hustling is a grind and you will be spending as much time record keeping and researching as playing blackjack but there is money to be made and It beats flipping burgers.

  2. #28
    Coug Fan
    Guest

    Coug Fan: Sincere advice

    I realize that you probably feel that everyone is ganging up on you, but believe me when I say that people are just speaking from their own painful experience. There is nothing quite like the feeling of losing a sizeable chunk of money in a short period. For me, it was $2,500 in 90 minutes. I was spreading 1-4 in green chips at a good single deck game, so this loss should not have been surprising. Toward the end of my session I was in another state of mind, almost in a daze. I later read a great article by Mike Caro which describes the concept of a "threshold of pain", basically, you reach a state of loss where you no longer care about additional losses. He applies it to poker, but it is equally applicable to BJ. The key is to remember that you will eventually care about the results of your current actions even if you don't care at the moment. I didn't understand this concept and ended up playing on tilt, angry, frustrated, irrational and illogical. Definately NOT playing a winning game by any stretch of the word. I left the casino dazed, confused, and literally feeling like I had just been punched hard in the gut. I will never forget that feeling.

    The $2,500 was only about 1/8 of my bankroll at the time, but it was all the cash that I had on me (thankfully). Since then, I have had bigger session losses, though not as big a % of bankroll and have also had my fair share of positive variance as well. I now look back on that first big loss as a valuable learning experience, but it made me seriously doubt alot of things at the time. I cannot imagine my reaction if I had lost my entire bankroll in that session. When you talk about bringing $500 to Vegas, realize that your most likely outcome is losing your entire bankroll. This will be very painful.

    Another option is to find $5 in savings per day (or $4, or $3, etc). Can you bring lunch instead of going out? Can you skip the daily latte? Can you ride the bus instead of paying for parking and gas? $5 per day is $150 per month, or $1,800 in a year. Build a bankroll, then play Blackjack.

  3. #29
    Sonny
    Guest

    Sonny: Great post, and some questions.

    Yes, that "threshold of pain" sounds very familiar! I've felt that a few times after a string of bad sessions. I began to feel completely numb to the losses. It didn't even matter to me anymore, I almost expected it!

    You said that you were playing on tilt. How do you know that you were not playing a winning game? Were you not sticking to your bet spread or playing strategy? Looking back on my "numb" sessions I think that I was still playing well, but now I'm a little worried that I was on tilt as well. What sort of things should we look for as we approach the "threshold?" Do you have any warning signs (tells) that let you gauge how close you are to the threshold?

    -Sonny-

  4. #30
    HalvesX2
    Guest

    HalvesX2: reality of blackjack

    i think what you should do is re-read the BJ material you have and try to understand the fluctuations which will occur while playing blackjack.
    There isn't a single decent blackjack book which doesnt warn you about the consequences of playing with an inadequate bankroll. and you know what? they are telling the truth!!
    Your bankroll of $500 is so small that a minor downward fluX would wipe you out. It seems ur so excited about the idea of being able to beat the game and is overlooking the fact that other things are needed as well to beat the game other than just the ability to count. e.g. an adequate "BANKROLL",
    Of cos you can try with a $500 BR and do a $5-$30 (hail mary BR) but just be prepared to lose it all while hoping to hit a positive flux straight away. But hail mary type strategy is only for those who can easily rebuild their BR after they lose it.
    One suggestion on what you can do if you really do decide on going against every1's advise and proceed to play. Go to shoe games where the PEN is good, back count it until you get to almost the end of the shoe and wong in if its favourable.
    also just to let you know what can happen. I just got back from a trip, on the last 2days of the trip the BJ table managed to take over 40 MAX bets off me... talk about a big streak. i was consistently losing 3-5big bets per favourable shoe. but that's what probabilities is all about, you have to understand the very basics of it "PROBABLE DOESN'T EQUAL TO CERTAINTY" favourable situations are not win for sure situations. winning BJ is all about grinding it out. that's why every1 is telling u its better not to play becos with a short BR ur in no position to grind with the casino. looking for short term success with a tiny BR is GAMBLING. If ur going to gamble than dont even bother urself with counting at all, just walk up to the roulette table or craps table choose black or red, or choose pass or dont pass bet the $500 then leave whether win or lose.

  5. #31
    Coug_Fan
    Guest

    Coug_Fan: Re: Great post, and some questions.

    > You said that you were playing on tilt. How do you
    > know that you were not playing a winning game?

    I was using a simple $25-$100 spread. As I started to lose my cool, my max bet creeped up to $150, then 2 hands of $100, then 2 hands of $150. Then I figured, "screw it" and started betting $100 off the top. You get the idea.

    > What sort
    > of things should we look for as we approach the
    > "threshold?" Do you have any warning signs
    > (tells) that let you gauge how close you are to the
    > threshold?

    Here is what I have learned. I am usually very detached from the results of my play and am able to view them with interest but little to no emotion. If I get upset about a hand, then I am starting to go on tilt. If I catch myself thinking about how much I need to win so that I can get back to even, then it is time to leave.

  6. #32
    HalvesX2
    Guest

    HalvesX2: Re: reality of blackjack

    but shzt happens you know wat i'm saying.. there r times when every time u double eleven u get an ace..
    that's wat happen in my down 4X big bets 2day losing streak. for some strange reason, i'd always be dealt 11 instead of ten and mananged to get 4ACEs out of 5 big bet and the fifth time i got a 3 =.= losing every1 of my big bet eleven double.
    But that's life... there r times when no matter wat card u got for the double, the dealer would bust. and there r times when ever you have a big bet out the dealer would pat a 20.
    winning BJ is not about just getting a good count and win, it's all about getting good count and start to grind it out with the dealer for and eventual win.. for all those who just started. i'm not putting u down or anything, good count is not like the ATM machine where u just enter the code and get the money. its about fighting it out with an upper hand.

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