Just Curious: A basic strategy question...

[Just Curious]

In a multiple deck (4-8), H17, DAS game is Standing or Doubling (if allowed) the correct play for A7 vs. 2? I have seen the charts in about 10 different books (from BJ bluebook to BJ attack) and some say to STAND and others say to DOUBLE if allowed otherwise STAND. I have also went to blackjackinfo.com and used the BS engine which produced the result I believe may be the correct answer. Thanks in advance for any help with this question.

P.S. I am not trying to iritate anyone by not giving my opinion as to what I think is probably correct for this particular game... I would just like to see an unbiased answer and explanation of why the answer is correct by someone more knowledgeable rather that just seeing a response of "you're right" or "I looked in this book and it says...".

[Don Schlesinger]

> In a multiple deck (4-8), H17, DAS game is Standing or
> Doubling (if allowed) the correct play for A7 vs. 2?

Doubling.

> I have seen the charts in about 10 different books (from
> BJ bluebook to BJ attack) and some say to STAND and
> others say to DOUBLE if allowed otherwise STAND.

The latter are correct and the former aren't. Care to list them for us? :-) (Perhaps those that said to hit were assuming that soft doubling wasn't permitted, he said tactfully! :-))

> I have also gone to blackjackinfo.com and used the BS
> engine which produced the result I believe may be the
> correct answer. Thanks in advance for any help with
> this question.

It undoubtedly produced "double," because a) It's the correct answer, and b) The engine doesn't make any mistakes that I know of.

> P.S. I am not trying to irritate anyone by not giving
> my opinion as to what I think is probably correct for
> this particular game...

You wouldn't irritate us, but you have to understand something: We don't give "opinions" about BS any more than we give "opinions" about 2 + 2 = 4. There are right answers and wrong answers; opinions simply don't matter.

> I would just like to see an
> unbiased answer and explanation of why the answer is
> correct by someone more knowledgeable rather that just
> seeing a response of "you're right" or
> "I looked in this book and it says...".

Here's the best I can do: On BJA3, p. 454, Table A61, we learn that, for 6D, H17, if we stand on A,7 v. 2, we win 0.11310. If we double, we win 0.116262. So, if we're looking to maximize our e.v. on the play, we double. On p. 470, Table A77, for the 8-deck game, you'll find similar values that tell us to do the same thing.

If you go to the BS chart on p. 489, for this play, you'll find "Ds," which means "Double if permitted, otherwise, stand."

Hope this helps.

Don

[Just Curious]

First off, Don, thank you very much this was a great help. This is what I assumed to be the correct answer.

The books I consulted were:

These five books say to STAND: (I can understand some of these books because it is listed as a generic mutiple deck strategy. However, many list exceptions if different rules apply, but none covered the A7. The book I am really suprised at is Fred Renzey's because he list a S17 NDAS strategy on pg. 54 and on pg. 55 he list the changes to make if it is a H17 & DAS game and A7 is the only change he did not cover)

SW's Professional BJ pg. 26.
Revere's Playing BJ as a Buusiness pg.27,
Arnold Snyder's Black Belt in BJ pg. 312 - 313,
Fred Renzey's Blackjack Bluebook II pg 54-55,
Ian Anderson's Burning the Tables in Las Vegas pg. 7-8

These three books say to DOUBLE:

Bootlegger's 200 Proof BJ pg. 36,
Blackjack Attack (I assume you know the author & pg., hehe)
Bryce Carlson's BJ for Blood pg. 49

> You wouldn't irritate us, but you have to understand
> something: We don't give "opinions" about BS
> any more than we give "opinions" about 2 + 2
> = 4. There are right answers and wrong answers;
> opinions simply don't matter.

Understood, poor choice of words on my part.

> Here's the best I can do: On BJA3, p. 454, Table A61,
> we learn that, for 6D, H17, if we stand on A,7 v. 2,
> we win 0.11310. If we double, we win 0.116262. So, if
> we're looking to maximize our e.v. on the play, we
> double. On p. 470, Table A77, for the 8-deck game,
> you'll find similar values that tell us to do the same
> thing.

I seen pg. 470 and the answer is clear as day. I knew I had a chart like this, but I couldn't find it for the life of me the other day when I was trying to do this comparasion... Thanks!

P.S. Yes, the BJ engine did say to DOUBLE.

Thanks Again, Don

[Magician]

> These five books say to STAND: (I can understand some
> of these books because it is listed as a generic
> mutiple deck strategy. However, many list exceptions
> if different rules apply, but none covered the A7. The
> book I am really suprised at is Fred Renzey's because
> he list a S17 NDAS strategy on pg. 54 and on pg. 55 he
> list the changes to make if it is a H17 & DAS game
> and A7 is the only change he did not cover)

> SW's Professional BJ pg. 26.

See page 24 where it is explained that the table on page 26 "is basic strategy for multiple decks and dealer stands on soft seventeen." Wong covers BS variations in Basic Blackjack.