Little Ben: Am I up shit creek without a paddle?

[Little Ben]

I've been reading Humble's book (world's greatest Blackjack) and have arrived at a bit of a snag. I live in the UK and went a long to my local casino last week. The problem I?m faced with concerns my 'True Count'. The shoe used in the Casino is quite a large piece of machinery where the player cannot see the cards remaining in the machine, further to this I have a feeling that the shoe may be a random shuffling machine.

Since the casino operates as a chain in the UK, I can only assume that all the casinos under the company name all use these shoes (there's probably one in every large town or city). How can I still gain an advantage without an accurate ?True Count??

Thanks again.

Ben

[Sun Runner]

> The shoe used in the Casino is quite
> a large piece of machinery where the player
> cannot see the cards remaining in the
> machine ..

Usually you would try an eye ball the discard rack, not the shoe itself, for TC'ing.

Can you see the discards or are they being stuffed right back in the back of the machine after each hand or two? If so, you probably are looking at a Continuous Shuffling Machine. It might have a 'King' sticker on the outside. The ones I have seen are grey. Bummer; you are right, generally impossible to TC.

Learn to play poker, I guess!?

If the cards are being collected in a discard rack until completion of the 6D shoe, then installed in the machine for shuffling, while at the same time another 312 cards are being removed from the machine that have been in the process of being shuffled while play was going on .. that is an Automatic Shuffling Machine and can be counted if you can see the discards. The ones I have seen are black. In this case, the color of the card backs for the card set in the machine and the card set being played s/b different.

Hope this helps.

[Little Ben]

Now that you mention it, the machine is grey with a digital display on the side indicating how many decks the table uses; this particular table used six. When there, I didn't pay too much attention to the discards I was concentrating more of the hi-tech shoe and the man in front of me who lost about ?350 (approx $700) in the space of an hour or two.

I?ll have to pay more attention next time.

Thanks though.

[Parker]

> Now that you mention it, the machine is grey
> with a digital display on the side
> indicating how many decks the table uses;
> this particular table used six. When there,
> I didn't pay too much attention to the
> discards I was concentrating more of the
> hi-tech shoe and the man in front of me who
> lost about ?350 (approx $700) in the space
> of an hour or two.

Check if they are dealing the cards directly from the "machine" or if the 6 deck pack is removed from the machine and loaded into a conventional shoe for dealing. If they are dealing directly from the machine, and if the cards are re-inserted into the machine after every round, or every few rounds, then you are dealing with a continuous shuffle machine (CSM) which cannot be counted down. Every round is like the first round of a freshly shuffled shoe.

OTOH, if the cards are removed from the device and loaded into a shoe, and if the discards are placed in a discard tray until the cut card comes out, then you are dealing with a non-continuous automatic shuffle machine, and you may proceed to count cards.

I have never played the UK, but I do know that CSM's are not universally used there. However, from what I've heard, the non-CSM games are still pretty tough to beat due to unfavorable rules and penetration.

[chancer]

Sounds like CSM. Is it a Gala Casino?

Look further afield, there are plenty of hand shuffled games in the UK.

[Little Ben]

> Sounds like CSM. Is it a Gala Casino?

> Look further afield, there are plenty of
> hand shuffled games in the UK.

No it's Grosvenor Casinos. My other option is to go to the small privately owned Casinos. I just hope I don't get caught counting in them. I like my legs intact!

[MikeH]

> Sounds like CSM. Is it a Gala Casino?

> Look further afield, there are plenty of
> hand shuffled games in the UK.

Hi Chancer

Im looking for a half decent game in London, but from what ive read there just arent any.

Is there anywhere that you would recommend?

(I apologise if this is a crass question to ask on a public forum, feel free not to provide any information if that is deemed inappropriate).

[Bettie]

[chancer]

The UK game is tough to beat without showing your true colours. My advice is to take as much money as you can before the inevitable barring. Four deck games worth a look are: Palm Beach, Cromwell Mint, Rendezvous, Colony, Napoleons & Hard Rock (usually CSM, but sometimes HS). There are others, but they are harder to get into, unless you know a member. Funny story about a CC who befriended a ploppy in one casino. The ploppy got the CC into another casino which was a very exclusive ?1000/year membership and very plush, as a guest. The CC went on to burn the place down. The CC was naturally barred after the visit, but so was the unsuspecting ploppy. The CC had no regrets, he just came to the conclusion that he had done the ploppy a favour by preventing the ploppy from future losses.

[MikeH]

> The UK game is tough to beat without showing
> your true colours. My advice is to take as
> much money as you can before the inevitable
> barring. Four deck games worth a look are:
> Palm Beach, Cromwell Mint, Rendezvous,
> Colony, Napoleons & Hard Rock (usually
> CSM, but sometimes HS). There are others,
> but they are harder to get into, unless you
> know a member. Funny story about a CC who
> befriended a ploppy in one casino. The
> ploppy got the CC into another casino which
> was a very exclusive ?1000/year membership
> and very plush, as a guest. The CC went on
> to burn the place down. The CC was naturally
> barred after the visit, but so was the
> unsuspecting ploppy. The CC had no regrets,
> he just came to the conclusion that he had
> done the ploppy a favour by preventing the
> ploppy from future losses.

Chancer

Many thanks for the info.

Mike