gazman: Level 2 count

[bjmagic]

> HiLo: Hourly win rate: $35.45, bet $10-80,
> etc.

> Zen: Hourly win rate: $34.54, bet $10-$80,
> etc.

> Only constraints I supplied were bankroll
> ($3000) and bet spread (1-8).

What's the ROR for each game. I guarantee the ROR will be lower.

[Random Poster]

SSR: what's the index #'s for the Zen for 11 vs 7 up to 11 vs A? With the old Zen, you were supposed to true to 1 deck... with the new Zen, you're supposed to true to 1/4 deck. I'm wondering if you're truing to 1 deck, but using the indices that are based on trueing to 1/4 deck.

> The question is "what"? Clearly
> not my setup here, now, as I very carefully
> made everything the same. Perhaps it is the
> parameters for the "snyder
> full-zen" as supplied with CVCX? I
> checked the hi-lo indices and found nothing
> untoward. Don't know enough about Zen to see
> if the CVCX parameters omit anything
> important or what.

> I'll try an I18 run to see if that produces
> your results, since I have been running with
> full indices...

[stainless steel rat]

> SSR: what's the index #'s for the Zen for 11
> vs 7 up to 11 vs A? With the old Zen, you
> were supposed to true to 1 deck... with the
> new Zen, you're supposed to true to 1/4
> deck. I'm wondering if you're truing to 1
> deck, but using the indices that are based
> on trueing to 1/4 deck.

Here is what I see (I assume you mean hard double indices for 11?)

11 vs 2 -24
11 vs 3 -26
11 vs 4 -28
11 vs 5 -32
11 vs 6 -34
11 vs 7 -18
11 vs 8 -13
11 vs 9 -9
11 vs 10 -9
11 vs A -2

Note that I am not supplying any zen info, CVCX has all of this built in. I just click "zen with full indices". CVCX handles the RC/RC stuff automatically based on the requirements of the count, so I don't get any say-so there at all...

[stainless steel rat]

> Very quickly, using BJRM, I ran the two
> side-by-side (I18 only).

> Zen won a little more and had a 2% lower
> ROR.

Hilo 34.95 per hour, 3K ROR 18.2%

zen 34.28 per hour, 3K ROR 20.6%

> I repeat: Something is wrong.

I agree. But it might not be on my end...

> Don

[Random Poster]

Yep, those are trueing to 1 deck, AND they're the old indices (the ones you should be comparing to the Hi-Lo indices). When I get home tonight, I'll run the sims on CVCX.

Did you run sims or did you look at the canned sims provided by Norm?

> Here is what I see (I assume you mean hard
> double indices for 11?)

> 11 vs 2 -24
> 11 vs 3 -26
> 11 vs 4 -28
> 11 vs 5 -32
> 11 vs 6 -34
> 11 vs 7 -18
> 11 vs 8 -13
> 11 vs 9 -9
> 11 vs 10 -9
> 11 vs A -2

> Note that I am not supplying any zen info,
> CVCX has all of this built in. I just click
> "zen with full indices". CVCX
> handles the RC/RC stuff automatically based
> on the requirements of the count, so I don't
> get any say-so there at all...

[stainless steel rat]

> Yep, those are trueing to 1 deck, AND
> they're the old indices (the ones you should
> be comparing to the Hi-Lo indices). When I
> get home tonight, I'll run the sims on CVCX.

> Did you run sims or did you look at the
> canned sims provided by Norm?

I've done both. I posted something ("new data") that has two one billion round sims, one with complete hilo, the other with complete zen. Norm also has some canned sims but you have to read the titles carefully as some are heads up, some have 7 players, etc...

[stainless steel rat]

> What's the ROR for each game. I guarantee
> the ROR will be lower.

You aren't going to like the answer...

ROR for 3K hilo is 16.9%
ROR for 3K zen is 18.2%

As I said, there is something magic about this particular game setup it seems. I don't know enough about Zen to draw any conclusions but every comparison I can do with CVCX says that for this game, hilo is better. Go figure...