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Thread: Christian: Counting speed

  1. #14
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: A couple points

    V4 will allow the user to set the green/yellow/red annulars on the speedometer thus allowing you to set your own standards. I just need to come up with defaults.

  2. #15
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: potassium and water

    > Some of us "rookies" (I'm sure I'm
    > not the only one) are not familiar with the
    > above statement. Would you please take a
    > minute to expand on Uston's phony bet?

    Uston and Benny Binion were both good at promotion. Binion declared that counting didn't work and bet Uston he couldn't win using counting. Uston won and Binion admitted counting worked and barred him. But Binion knew this all along. I and many others were barred at Binion's well before the bet. It was just a way of promoting counting. Some casinos have been smart enough to realize that a winnable game brings in more losers.

  3. #16
    MJ
    Guest

    MJ: 2 Table Backcounting Drill

    How does one access the 2 table backcounting drill on CV? I just cannot seem to find it. Thanks for the help!

    -MJ

    > I've always wanted to obtain an agreement on
    > what should be a benchmark for acceptable
    > speed. Never been able to get an agreement.
    > Perhaps this is OK. It really comes down to
    > what you can manage while keeping up your
    > 'act.' And that will vary by person and
    > circumstance. The point of the drills is to
    > force you into a speed that you will never
    > experience in a casino. If you still feel
    > uncomfortable in a casino with your
    > performance, stop playing and practice more.
    > And, as many have suggested, watch TV or
    > talk on the phone while practicing. I do not
    > provide such built-in distractions because
    > they cannot compare to human interaction.
    > Humans are not predicatable and therefore
    > the best interaction.

    > The best test in CVBJ is the two-table
    > back-counting drill. If you can pass that,
    > you are dangerous

  4. #17
    gorilla player
    Guest

    gorilla player: Re: 2 Table Backcounting Drill

    > How does one access the 2 table backcounting
    > drill on CV? I just cannot seem to find it.
    > Thanks for the help!

    > -MJ

    go to tools, full-table-drills and on the left-hand side there is a on/off feature "2 table drill". Click the button so that it turns black, and off you go. Tables alternate green and blue, you have to keep both counts...


  5. #18
    Christian
    Guest

    Christian: Re: Counting speed

    First of all,thanks for all of the reply's.

    And thank's for the detailed response "Gorilla Player".
    I also run full-table,starting hands,8 decks,I also find that it sometimes takes a while to find the right button.
    It's good to know what others that are successful can achieve,it gives me an idea of what's required.

    The game that I will be playing at the beginning will be: 8 deck, 75%pen, Double 9,10,11 only,split to make 3 hands,A's to 2 hands, DAS and OBBO.
    As Crown casino is the only casino in Melbourne,Australia,I dont have much choice.

    Thank's again for the help,

    Christian

    > First, more specifics. I do the same drill.
    > I run full-table, starting hands, 6 decks,
    > which makes it a bit harder because the
    > running count can be extreme. I run it at 5
    > seconds per shot, but give myself another 5
    > seconds (never use it) to find the right
    > button. I often find it taking as long to
    > find -8 as it did to count all the hands. I
    > typically go between 9-10 per minute,
    > although if I _really_ bear down I can go
    > beyond that quite easily, but it becomes
    > tiring.

    > I don't really like the "full
    > hand" approach as I never count like
    > that in a game.

    > Another idea. I have a CVTEST customized to
    > do the following:

    > 1. flashcard, normal two-card hands, no
    > indices.
    > 2. flashcard, normal two-card hands, with
    > fab4/I18 indices.
    > 3. counting drill, two cards at a time,
    > running count for 6 decks dealt to bottom.
    > 4. remaining decks for 6 decks, 1 deck
    > resolution.
    > 5. counting drill, two cards at a time, true
    > count, for 6 decks dealt to bottom.
    > 5. full table running count
    > 6. full table true count

    > I usually screw up one along the way
    > somewhere, by hitting the wrong count, the
    > wrong strategy play, or the wrong remaining
    > deck estimate. I run this custom test once
    > or twice a day, usually when I am fooling
    > around late at night, and out of the last 5
    > runs, 3 were perfect, two were 99%.

    > Now to your other question. Hitting 5-6 per
    > minute is not bad. I am not sitting in front
    > of CV right now, but I believe it has at
    > least 5 or 6 players + dealer hand. 5 per
    > minute means you are counting 30-35 hands
    > per minute, or 1800+ per hour. A dealer
    > going that fast would dislocate his wrist
    > and elbow and melt the shoe. Believe me, 5
    > per minute is plenty fast when you think
    > about it.

    > I run the 2-card counting drills at 1 sec
    > exactly per pair. I can go a bit faster, but
    > if I screw up, I can't pause to refigure the
    > count. For a reference I can count down a
    > deck in about 15 seconds, two at a time... I
    > can do that quite a bit faster, but at 15
    > seconds I don't make any errors, period.
    > Going faster I will often end up at zero
    > with a 10 or small card removed.

    > Another good thing with CV is to set the
    > options to play like a pitched game where
    > the first two cards are dealt face down.
    > That makes you pay more attention, as when a
    > player takes a hit, and busts, CV will turn
    > over his cards for a split second and then
    > drag them to the discard. If you don't pay
    > attention you will miss them. When you can
    > do that with no problems, face-up games seem
    > like child's play...

    > It would be an interesting side-topic to
    > compare notes with others to see how speeds
    > compare. Only thing that is necessary is to
    > specify _exactly_ how we run each test,
    > since CV has lots of options, with sliders
    > that can speed up or slow things down, you
    > can have the cards displayed only
    > horizontally (easier to count) or mixed
    > (turned every which way which makes it a bit
    > harder at first) and so forth.

    > If several are interested, we could make a
    > standardized test and perhaps Norm can tell
    > us if there is an easy way to share the file
    > that contains the customized test suite so
    > that everyone could run the same tests.

    > Obviously for those that like the
    > competition. I assume most BJ players fit
    > that mold. My "competitiveness"
    > often pisses my wife off, when I try to wrap
    > a package faster than her, or clean
    > something faster, etc. Just comes naturally
    > to me.

  6. #19
    fatcat519
    Guest

    fatcat519: Re: potassium and water

    >> I suspect there are many like me...

    I am a lot like you. Relating to what Norm said, I was never interested in "gambling"; never went to a casino until I found out about counting and advantage play at BJ. I enjoy studying and learning something new and challenging, and the fact that it's fun and profitable makes it even better.

  7. #20
    MJ
    Guest

    MJ: Thanks GP! *NM*


  8. #21
    gorilla player
    Guest

    gorilla player: Re: potassium and water

    > I am a lot like you. Relating to what Norm
    > said, I was never interested in
    > "gambling"; never went to a casino
    > until I found out about counting and
    > advantage play at BJ. I enjoy studying and
    > learning something new and challenging, and
    > the fact that it's fun and profitable makes
    > it even better.

    I have always liked to push myself. Whether it be in computing skills, radio-controlled model airplanes (we have comepetitions that are hard to believe, including pylon racing with models that can break 130+ miles an hour) to now blackjack. Pushing myself to be a better/more accurate counter (CV BJ gives me a way (now) to measure qualitative improvement) as well as simply trying to survive in the casino setting, which is an ongoing battle of wits (sometimes with an unarmed opponent. )

    Last time we were down in South Mississippi visiting family, this came up as we were planning a short drive to the coast as some of the family down there believe in winning at slots. As we were getting ready (not everyone was going) someone asked (talking to me) OK, GP (used my real name of course) ready to do some gambling? I said "no, I _never_ gamble." There was a moment's silence with a "what the hell are you talking about, we are going to a casino" look, then a slow realization of what I meant was apparent on their faces. A slow realization of the import of that simple statement led to some interesting discussions, and them looking at my interest in blackjack in a whole new light. My wife just looked (it was her family) and said "what part of this didn't you guys get? _I_ am the gambler here. GP plays, but does not gamble."

    They got interested, I gave them a few quick insights. When I pulled a deck of cards out of my pocket to show them what counting a deck down was all about, they just looked at me with that blank "you carry a deck of cards in your pocket?" sort of look.

    Probably served as a topic of conversation for weeks down there. "hey, guess what my brother-in-law does..."

    So for me, it provides yet another venue for competing, both with myself, and the pit critters. Of course, making some money in the process is a good deal as well.

    I learned _many_ years ago that things I like, I can get very good at. Things I dislike, I generally don't give a rat's a** about and I don't try, which means I never get good at 'em.

    As a sort of oxymoron, years ago I learned to speed-read and got _really_ good at it. Why did I learn? So that I could get through all the history and literature crap that I despised in college, without wasting a lot of time doing it... Only thing is, that can ruin reading for pleasure, which I do a lot of. Have to learn how to "throttle back" as it is pointless to buy a new paperback book, sit down, and finish it in less time than it takes for a 1/2 hour sitcom to run on TV...


  9. #22
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: Snyder and standardization

    > My point in the creation of CVTest
    > originally was to create standardized tests.

    > One of my heroes in this field is Arnold Snyder.

    Arnold Snyder has stated that, regarding counting skills and team play membership, many teams require you to be able to countdown a SD in 20 seconds, 10 times in row, 100% accuracy. He goes on to say that 15 seconds would (of course) be better.

  10. #23
    Gorilla Player
    Guest

    Gorilla Player: Re: A couple points

    > V4 will allow the user to set the
    > green/yellow/red annulars on the speedometer
    > thus allowing you to set your own standards.
    > I just need to come up with defaults.

    Something else I noticed recently, but had thought it just a screw-up on my part.

    Two-table backcounting drill. I had the option "starting hands (2 cards)" set. But I noticed that I often see more than 2 cards per hand on the two-table drill. I finally decided that perhaps this is intended, since when back-counting two tables, they would rarely sync up so that each table only had 2-card hands when I looked.

    Is this a correct thinking? That for 2-table backcounting the number of cards is random and not controllable? Not a problem, just thought I was "losing it" for a while as every now and then I'd notice a 5-6 card hand and think "where did that come from" and promptly screw up the count as the screen would blank while I was puzzling that behavior.

    Otherwise, it works well, but can be a bit "mind bending". I can do it, but I can't be tired when I start or it is hopeless... If I miss many, and get that "buzz" my wife grumbles "can you turn that buzzer down or stop screwing up whatever you are screwing up so it won't buzz?"

  11. #24
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Shouldn't last long

    > Otherwise, it works well, but can be a bit
    > "mind bending". I can do it, but I
    > can't be tired when I start or it is
    > hopeless... If I miss many, and get that
    > "buzz" my wife grumbles "can
    > you turn that buzzer down or stop screwing
    > up whatever you are screwing up so it won't
    > buzz?"

    The point is, you shouldn't have to back-count two tables simultaneously for too long before one becomes clearly superior to the other. From Chapter 13, we know how quickly you should be abandoning tables that you're scouting once the count heads south, so, hopefully, most scenarios where you b-c two tables at once should be relatively short-lived.

    Don

  12. #25
    Gorilla Player
    Guest

    Gorilla Player: Re: Shouldn't last long

    > The point is, you shouldn't have to
    > back-count two tables simultaneously for too
    > long before one becomes clearly superior to
    > the other. From Chapter 13, we know how
    > quickly you should be abandoning tables that
    > you're scouting once the count heads south,
    > so, hopefully, most scenarios where you b-c
    > two tables at once should be relatively
    > short-lived.

    > Don

    Ok, but in a 6d shoe, I've seen a lot of cases where I stand between two tables, one heads south, other stays neutral, other one then turns around and heads north and eventually that is where I end up playing...

    Do you "quit" when the RC hits some magic number? (or the TC if you prefer). I don't do this very often as I find it very difficult to pull off. If both tables are empty, one has to be very careful. If the tables are somewhat crowded, counting is often difficult due to people standing in the way. Some places make this hard by not having BJ tables side by side as well, ie mixing in a 3-card poker table or something else.

    But it is interesting at times to watch two. Often wondered if I could sneak into the pit and see if I could do this for more than two, but I suspect that would be noticed.

    In any case, this is not something I try very often, as conditions simply don't work out. IE little point in back-counting a table that has every seat filled. This would be a good idea probably for those places that are less crowded, I just don't see much of that unfortunately.

    I also seem to be stuck in "neutral-shoe hell" recently. Count climbs a bit, the big cards dump, count goes back down, or big cards come out first, count slowly recovers, but never reach those sought-after points where things look "rosey". Every now and then, yes. Shakespeare might have written "I'd give my right hand for a +10 TC shoe. Nay, I'd give both hands and one leg. But I am smitten by bad luck. To be truthful, my lucketh sucketh, forsooth."


  13. #26
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: Shouldn't last long

    > Do you "quit" when the RC hits
    > some magic number?

    Er, excuse me, but I think about 8 of us worked six months or so to produce Chapter 13, Part I. You might want to have a look! :-)

    > I also seem to be stuck in
    > "neutral-shoe hell" recently.
    > Count climbs a bit, the big cards dump,
    > count goes back down, or big cards come out
    > first, count slowly recovers, but never
    > reach those sought-after points where things
    > look "rosey". Every now and then,
    > yes. Shakespeare might have written
    > "I'd give my right hand for a +10 TC
    > shoe. Nay, I'd give both hands and one leg.
    > But I am smitten by bad luck. To be
    > truthful, my lucketh sucketh,
    > forsooth."

    Sounds like you're probably watching negative shoes too long, hoping for them to "come back." Reread Chapter 13.

    Don

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