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Thread: Should already know this......: Options

  1. #1
    Should already know this......
    Guest

    Should already know this......: Options

    Don & others,

    Am I correct in stating that you are better off looking for a "better" game than worrying about which card counting system you use? In other words, the difference between using KO and AO11 is tiny compared to getting a 5/6 game vs. 4/6 or 7/8 vs. 6/8 etc.

    Also, of all the common variations of rules, is penetration the factor with the most impact? i.e. Is it correct to say penetration is far more important than whether you can double after splitting, double on all etc. etc.?

    Lastly, if you were limited in the games you could play (all average penetration, reasonable rules etc.), would there THEN be much gain in using AO11 compared to KO & using more indices than Don's Ill.18?

    Thank you for all responses

    Embarrased.


  2. #2
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: See for yourself


    Go to the link below and click on the BJ Income Calculator. You can modify the rules, decks, strategy, indexes, side counts, penetration & bankroll and see the effect on the win rate yourself. Over 1,000,000 combinations can be set.



  3. #3
    Tiggis
    Guest

    Tiggis: Re: Options

    > Don & others,

    > Am I correct in stating that you are better
    > off looking for a "better" game
    > than worrying about which card counting
    > system you use? In other words, the
    > difference between using KO and AO11 is tiny
    > compared to getting a 5/6 game vs. 4/6 or
    > 7/8 vs. 6/8 etc.

    > Also, of all the common variations of rules,
    > is penetration the factor with the most
    > impact? i.e. Is it correct to say
    > penetration is far more important than
    > whether you can double after splitting,
    > double on all etc. etc.?

    > Lastly, if you were limited in the games you
    > could play (all average penetration,
    > reasonable rules etc.), would there THEN be
    > much gain in using AO11 compared to KO &
    > using more indices than Don's Ill.18?

    > Thank you for all responses

    > Embarrased.

    Yes huge.. if you can play both systems equally well in a casino and they both use the same bet spread and the same ramp AOII beats KO badly.

  4. #4
    scobee 1
    Guest

    scobee 1: Question for Norm

    I am amazed time and again at the free stuff you offer on your website to aid the advantage player. In this instance, I am unsure of the betting spread and bankroll adjustments in terms of ROR and average bet size.

    you state that " The above values assume that you are using an optimized betting ramp. That is, the sizes and the times that you make the bets have been optimized for maximum bankroll growth. Your results will be lower if you do not bet optimally. Casino V?rit? CVCX software is used by this site to calculate these values.

    Is this assuming a Kelly criteria of bet size to BR relationship, or am I missing (yet again) some standard divisor of the bankroll to determine unit size?

    Thanks again for your splendid software.

    scobee

  5. #5
    SOTSOG
    Guest

    SOTSOG: What to look for

    Penetration, Penetration, and Penetration are the first three things to look for.

    Then would come the rules of the game.

    Finally, the particular counting system you use.

    If you have bad penetration and bad rules, it doesn't matter if you are using Thorp's Ultimate Count or KO, you aren't going to make any money.


  6. #6
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Answer from Norm

    Yes, full Kelly is assumed. With CVCX you can specify fractional Kelly values or your desired Risk of Ruin percentages. But, I can't give it all away

    regards,
    norm

  7. #7
    scobee 1
    Guest

    scobee 1: I'm sold

    But, I can't give it all away

    Sent my order in just now. Can't wait to run my own sims on your CVData and CVCX.

    I am sure that ET Fan will be pleased I won't have to bug him for his evaluations from now on. But I am sure I will anyway.... ;-)

  8. #8
    PaddyBoy
    Guest

    PaddyBoy: Re: See for yourself

    > Go to the link below and click on the BJ
    > Income Calculator. You can modify the rules,
    > decks, strategy, indexes, side counts,
    > penetration & bankroll and see the
    > effect on the win rate yourself. Over
    > 1,000,000 combinations can be set.
    Norm why dose Basic OmegaII full indices,heads up gives a lesser win rate than Basic OmegaII.
    I thought if you play heads up you should win more.
    And are these rates foe playall or is their wonging out.

  9. #9
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Third base effect

    Both assume 100 hands per hour. You can vary this with CVCX - I couldn't add all the parameters on the web. There exists a slight advantage when other players are at the table if you sit at third base as your playing count is more accurate.

  10. #10
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: Third-base effect

    > There exists a slight advantage when other players are at the table if you sit at third base as your playing count is more accurate.

    I'm not sure that "accurate" is the right term, although I might be splitting hairs. It's that, at third base, you get to make your playing decisions with average penetration that is deeper than if you're sitting at another position. And, playing deviations are worth more the more deeply in the pack they are made.

    Don

  11. #11
    quark
    Guest

    quark: Re: Third-base effect

    > playing deviations are worth more the more
    > deeply in the pack they are made.

    Hmmmm... do I take this to mean that a, say, +4 TC is worth MORE in the last half of the shoe, than in the first half? And this only relates to playing variations, not betting deviations, right?


  12. #12
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: Third-base effect

    > Hmmmm... do I take this to mean that a, say,
    > +4 TC is worth MORE in the last half of the
    > shoe, than in the first half? And this only
    > relates to playing variations, not betting
    > deviations, right?

    I may have not stated the concept clearly. What I mean is that, as we go deeper into the pack, the gain that a player gets from play variations is greater than it was earlier on. It doesn't matter what the count is.

    See Griffin, p. 28, for example.

    Don

  13. #13
    Moose
    Guest

    Moose: Higher SCORE for playing worse??

    Parameters: Good, 4D, H17 DAS LS, 20-1
    Hi/Lo w/full indeces, heads up = 84.05
    Hi/Lo w/full indeces, 4 errors per hour = 84.46

    Care to explain?

    Any chance we can get ES10 added to the rule list?

    M.

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