Marc: Southern Indiana

[RP]

> The Evansville DD game is on the lowest
> level of the boat, near the poker room and
> the big 6. I will not tell you which boats I
> prefer for need to not give away my
> employer, but I will say that I've played
> every Southern Indiana boat (some more
> recently than others), including the one
> where I work now. So I may not be an expert
> on the boats in the area, but occasionally
> I'll have a tidbit for you.
> And dockside gaming did wonders for me both
> as a player and a dealer.
> Good luck

I would like to thank you, "friendly dealer," for the good information you've been providing on these forums about S. Ind. recently. However, I cannot understand how you can "give away (your) employer" by stating your preferences of the S. Ind. boats. You've said that you've played at all five of them, including the one you work at, so it would be very easy for you to state your preferences without letting it be known which one you work at. I think that all AP's who play at the S. Ind. casinos would very interested in your unique perspective. I'm not saying that you should post detailed information such as "dealer A gives great pen." or "pit boss B is clueless;" nobody should post that kind of information on public boards. However, how can you possibly reveal yourself by saying something like "Casino A is more paranoid of counters than Casino B?" I for one would be very interested in your generalizations about the S. Ind. casinos. Thanks for your time.

[the_friendly_dealer]

> I cannot
> understand how you can "give away
> (your) employer" by stating your
> preferences of the S. Ind. boats. You've
> said that you've played at all five of them,
> including the one you work at, so it would
> be very easy for you to state your
> preferences without letting it be known
> which one you work at.

I'll gladly pipe up with info on things like that DD game at Evansville because it's just a travesty a regular there is trying to make money on the shoe game. Aside from that, I don't believe any of the casinos (probably anywhere at all) know the hole card before it's turned if it's not a blackjack. The table limits comment was only a rumor I've heard, as I never bet that high anyway.

But on the broad topic of "what do you think of Southern Indiana casinos" I'd rather stay quiet. I have a lot more to say about a few than about others. If I talk about Rising Sun and Lawrenceburg a lot, I probably work at one of those two. Or if I talk about Evansville and Louisville a lot, probably one of those two. It's hard to get around to all the casinos anymore, working a dealer's schedule. It's tiring. I guess I might be just really paranoid, but I love my job and would prefer to save it at all costs.

PS That DD game at Evansville I felt was like my little secret, since it hasn't been busted wide open yet, but I make more money playing on the inside of the pit, so I thought I'd spread the wealth when I learned of another AP at Evansville.

[cucuso4]

> PS That DD game at Evansville I felt was
> like my little secret, since it hasn't been
> busted wide open yet, but I make more money
> playing on the inside of the pit, so I
> thought I'd spread the wealth when I learned
> of another AP at Evansville.

While I don't think there is any risk of the game being burnt out by any of the big boys ($100 table max), I do wish it specifically had not been mentioned in this thread. It's the only game worth playing in southern Indiana. Hope it will survive.

[Anonymous]

[RP]

[Parker]

While I am not familiar with the casinos in question (a little outside my usual turf), it should be pointed out that penetration is all-important to a counter, and 50% pen is all but unplayable even with excellent rules.

The problem is that with poor pen, one rarely sees really high counts. All it takes is for a few tens to come out early, and just about the time the count is starting to go positive, out pops the cut card.

As a result, a large spread is needed in order to beat these games. A large spread tends to draw heat.

If the tables are crowded, things become even worse, as hands/hour slows to a crawl.

What is ironic is that the casinos are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. Placing the cut card a little deeper would dramatically increase hands/hour, thereby increasing table holds.

With table limits of $100-$300, I seriously doubt that such a change would result in Tommy Hyland or the Greeks descending on them. :-)

[Tom]

...despite it's bad rules (D9, NDAS, no resplit)? And Caesars is not crowded when they have the 2 extra DD tables open, even on Fridays and Saturdays. I think counters (with smaller BRs) might prefer Aztar with 50% pen for its $10 min and no heat IF its SCORE is lower than Caesars (IF you can get 60%).

> According to the friendly dealer's
> description, which is accurate, the DD game
> at Evansville is basically the same as the
> DD game at Rising Sun (S17, DA2, DAS, 50%
> pen). The only differences involve the table
> max ($100 at Evansville vs. $300 at Rising
> Sun), the number of spots you can play (two
> at Evansville if the table is not full,
> which it usually is, as opposed to one at
> Rising Sun), and the dealing style (pitch at
> Evansville vs. face-up from a shoe at Rising
> Sun). I can't understand why the friendly
> dealer thinks it is such a good game; with
> the 50% pen and the crowded table
> conditions, the SCORE for the game is very
> low. Evansville DD is nothing for counters
> to get excited about.

[dpm123]

Although the pen at Rising Sun is 50%, I have seen it vary slightly depending on the dealer. They deal it face up out of a shoe because the dealers complained (note from Trackjack). I have actually heard the dealers complain about how much they hate to deal the game because they have to shuffle so often. Therefore, the dealers sometimes eek a little less out of the pen. The converse is also true. Some dealers follow the rule a too tightly and cut slightly more. If there is a known counter, the pen drops to 75%!!! I have seen this with a loud mouth who gets everyone's attention. I have actually been able to acheive 1-10 spread by betting $50 off the top and betting $25 for a shoe or two. I also try to follow winning/losing patterns for cover. If I'm losing a lot (and the count is dropping) I drop to $10 and creep back up with parlays.

[cucuso4]

> While I am not familiar with the casinos in
> question (a little outside my usual turf),
> it should be pointed out that penetration is
> all-important to a counter, and 50% pen is
> all but unplayable even with excellent
> rules.

> The problem is that with poor pen, one
> rarely sees really high counts. All it takes
> is for a few tens to come out early, and
> just about the time the count is starting to
> go positive, out pops the cut card.

> As a result, a large spread is needed in
> order to beat these games. A large spread
> tends to draw heat.

> If the tables are crowded, things become
> even worse, as hands/hour slows to a crawl.

> What is ironic is that the casinos are
> shooting themselves in the foot by doing
> this. Placing the cut card a little deeper
> would dramatically increase hands/hour,
> thereby increasing table holds.

> With table limits of $100-$300, I seriously
> doubt that such a change would result in
> Tommy Hyland or the Greeks descending on
> them. :-)

Someone in this thread said this was the best game in Indiana. I agree, it was. Was because it's now changed. Changed to D10, NDAS. No longer worth the 4.5 hour drive for me. Blue Chip is looking better.

[Evesdropper]

[cardbard]

I guess there's a little more gambler in me than in most of you guys. I just found this site today but I've been counting for a few years. For a long time I played as if I were being constantly watched. I disguised my play and never made any severe jumps in bet size. Unfortunately I never won that way.
I keep very precise records and I realized that what I was doing made grinding look fast. I slowly graduated from nickel tables to quarter tables and I started getting a little less concerned about "heat" because I figured that if I was going to ever make more money per hour than a mcdonalds employee, I'd need to take a few greater risks with the floor sup's and the eye in the sky. I also know many people on the other side of the table and the prevailing view is that if you're winning lots of money you'll get heat no matter what but if you aren't a big winner nobody is going to pay much attention to you. (I know that this is a generalization and I myself have been exited while playing a measly 1-5 spread in LV while I was losing a couple hundred bucks. But this was a small joint that sweated the money.) Most floor supervisors (especially in the midwest) are not well enough trained to spot a counter anyway and they'll have to call someone in to follow the count.
My point is that if I were in the above game (and I have been in that very game at casino aztar) I would have also increased to two spots but I would have been firing it in. Since my advantage starts somewhere around +2 I would have had the max bet of $100 on each spot. I know that some of you will say that this will result in an increased standard deviation and greater risk of ruin and all that technical blah blah, but for my taste I like going for it when the odds favor me. My favorite game right now is a 6 deck game where I can get away with $5 x 1-$125 x 2 without getting any real heat. I've been playing this game for about 6 months and haven't yet gotten any attention. I'm not naive and I'm certain that some of the dealers probably know what I'm doing but I feel like I have to strike while the iron is hot. They could very well know what i was doing if i were betting 10-50 and parlaying my way up as well.
A lot of Ap's mistakenly think that disguising their play will keep them safe. If you're winning enough money for someone to watch you you'll get busted no matter how hard you try to disguise your play. The dealer's don't give a damn if your winning or losing. All they care about are "tokes". Most floors don't care either. It's not their money. But when the pit bosses and above start looking at you they'll want to know "why is this guy winning so much". They have to answer to somebody and they'll catch you if you're still around. I'm not a big leaguer and I certainly don't know as much about advantage play as the experts but I know enough that I've been a fairly consistent winner over the last 5 or 6 years. I've been fortunate enough to have only one losing year (knock wood) and that loss was no greater than a few big bets. I guess my point in all of this is that I tend to side with the guys who say you have to push your advantage a little harder if you really want to make any money. Instead of spending so much time worrying about pressing your bet when the floor guy is watching maybe it would be a better utilization of your skill to learn a few more strategy deviations. Double that 8 when the dealer shows a 6 at a high count. Or stand on a 16 against a ten when you're supposed to. That's all the camouflage that's necessary. If they're really watching you then it's just a matter of time before they're onto you anyway. So why give up your advantage when you have it.
Okay, I know it's coming so go ahead, fire away. I'm the one with the big target on my chest...lol.

[cardbard]

sorry put wrong email down. This one is right.