• Careful, someone is listening

    Site that sells casino microphones. They sit under the green baize, and are, therefore, not visible. Casinos like Crockfords have listening devices at every Roulette and card table.

    http://www.acldigital.com/productDetails.asp?id=141

    Comments 25 Comments
    1. falling star's Avatar
      falling star -
      Good, finally someone is paying attention to what I saying.
      Probably spying on their employees more than the players.
    1. 21forme's Avatar
      21forme -
      So now we have the EITT (ear in the table) in addition to the EITS
    1. Aslan's Avatar
      Aslan -
      What next? The NITS?
    1. RWM's Avatar
      RWM -
      I wonder if this would be legal in the US?
    1. Three's Avatar
      Three -
      Politicians hate having clandestine recordings of what they say being admissible. Many jurisdictions make this a crime to punish the people trying to expose abuses and protect the corrupt. It is nice when you get to make the laws. Not so much for everyone else though.
    1. Aslan's Avatar
      Aslan -
      Quote Originally Posted by RWM View Post
      I wonder if this would be legal in the US?
      This capability is already in place for some time now at some places in the US, if my sources are correct. Since it is only used for internal purposes, it never surfaces as an issue. Legally, it might be better if they posted, Audio surveillance in progress,but that would tend to nullify it's effectiveness. What would be the upshot of being "caught" using audio surveillance? "Sorry. We thought it was okay since it is well known that surveillance is taking place. We will stop." Personally, I think they have every right. I am not even sure where their surveillance rights stop. The restroom door? Like the guy from Aria said in a recent thread vid, the cameras do not cover only 2% of the casino and he isn't sure himself where that 2% is. I believe him.
    1. RWM's Avatar
      RWM -
      I talked to both Bob Loeb, and Bob Nersesian about it. (This was a party and there was drinking involved so take it with a grain of salt.) They both seemed to think that it would depend on the state. Some states have 2 party consent, meaning all parties have to know the recording is happening, and some have 1 party where only one person needs to know the recording is happening, (in this case the casino) but Bob L also thought they would be covered if they just posted in the fine print of those signs where you enter that audio recording is happening and by entering you are consenting.
    1. joetzy's Avatar
      joetzy -
      Quote Originally Posted by RWM View Post
      I talked to both Bob Loeb, and Bob Nersesian about it. (This was a party and there was drinking involved so take it with a grain of salt.) They both seemed to think that it would depend on the state. Some states have 2 party consent, meaning all parties have to know the recording is happening, and some have 1 party where only one person needs to know the recording is happening, (in this case the casino) but Bob L also thought they would be covered if they just posted in the fine print of those signs where you enter that audio recording is happening and by entering you are consenting.
      The fundamental issue here could be for a patron to have "a reasonable expectation of privacy," a very high bar to overcome by a patron in a casino and with hundreds of cameras everywhere. Besides casinos would not introduce any recordings as evidence. Their purpose would have been met if they have supplemental info to use along with their video when monitoring players that are suspect.
    1. Norm's Avatar
      Norm -
      Three items:

      1. From Nevada statutes:
      NRS?200.650??Unauthorized, surreptitious intrusion of privacy by listening device prohibited.??Except as otherwise provided in NRS 179.410 to 179.515, inclusive, and 704.195, a person shall not intrude upon the privacy of other persons by surreptitiously listening to, monitoring or recording, or attempting to listen to, monitor or record, by means of any mechanical, electronic or other listening device, any private conversation engaged in by the other persons, or disclose the existence, content, substance, purport, effect or meaning of any conversation so listened to, monitored or recorded, unless authorized to do so by one of the persons engaging in the conversation.

      2. Also, according to http://www.2mcctv.com/blog/2012_08_0...odes-and-laws/:


      Regardless of the state, it is almost always illegal to record a conversation to which you are not a party, do not have consent to tape, and could not naturally overhear (RCFP):
      This means any situation in which you would have eavesdropped on that conversation but recorded it, is illegal. In the following states, the one recording must notify everyone being recorded that the recording is taking place: California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Utah, and Washington.


      3. Vigilant sells casino surveillance systems. They sell audio systems, but only where legal. They only place they mention that it’s legal is in the UK.
    1. Nyne's Avatar
      Nyne -
      I recall Bob Nersesian talking about this on GWAE. He mentioned once receiving a surveillance video that had audio on the tape as well. I don't remember the details of the discussion though. I don't remember him making a point of that being illegal, but it's been a while since I listened to it.
    1. RWM's Avatar
      RWM -
      If you are in the back room I think it has audio.
    1. Aslan's Avatar
      Aslan -
      Money count rooms would be the one place you would expect to find audio surveillance, and that's no problem for APs. Whether special circumstances allow for variances with state law in the gaming areas, I couldn't say. I don't believe state law matters in the case of Native American casinos. But like most everyone else, I am a seeker of knowledge, not an expert in this area.
    1. Norm's Avatar
      Norm -
      In NJ, the soft count room is required to have audio recording. I don’t think the hard count room needs this. The hold/detention/back room is an interesting question. In my mind, there should be audio and it should kept and turned over to the person held at his/her request. The entire idea of such a room is bothersome. If I remember the story correctly, 20 years back, Macy’s had a hold room for suspected shoplifters. Now, shoplifting is a serious problem for retailers. But, they chained suspects to the wall and left them there for hours. And, these were people that had not left the premises, which means they could not be found guilty under the law, and were later threatened into paying for merchandise they may not have wanted as a condition of release from imprisonment. When it got out that this friendly store with a family image of fireworks and a parade with huge, floating cartoon characters was chaining people to the wall in a secret back room, there were some changes.
    1. Nyne's Avatar
      Nyne -
      Quote Originally Posted by Nyne View Post
      I recall Bob Nersesian talking about this on GWAE. He mentioned once receiving a surveillance video that had audio on the tape as well. I don't remember the details of the discussion though. I don't remember him making a point of that being illegal, but it's been a while since I listened to it.
      I found the show I was thinking about: http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/ners3.mp3
      Specifically, from 11:25-14:09.

      This is directly relevant to this article. Bob Dancer specifically asked about the legality of a microphone in the table. Bob Nersesian's opinion, as I understand it, is that it probably would not be illegal to record audio in addition to the video in Nevada, but that it probably wouldn't be of much value to the casinos due to the noise, people talking over each other, etc. He mentioned that he once got a video that was taken on the casino floor by surveillance, and the video included audio as well. Even the head of surveillance did not expect the tape to have audio.
    1. Three's Avatar
      Three -
      In Maryland they have confiscated videos of police misconduct as evidence. You know how everyone carries cell phones capable of making a video. Well if it also makes audio recording your camera is seized as evidence of the crime you just committed of making an audio recording without consent. Funny how these laws are used to protect lawmakers and other authorities from evidence of their wrongdoing. The evidence of the police misconduct is never seen or heard again. Many a whistle blower has had legal troubles from this law.
    1. Nyne's Avatar
      Nyne -
      Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
      In Maryland they have confiscated videos of police misconduct as evidence. You know how everyone carries cell phones capable of making a video. Well if it also makes audio recording your camera is seized as evidence of the crime you just committed of making an audio recording without consent. Funny how these laws are used to protect lawmakers and other authorities from evidence of their wrongdoing. The evidence of the police misconduct is never seen or heard again. Many a whistle blower has had legal troubles from this law.
      That's ridiculous, but good to be aware of. Bob N. addressed this briefly starting at 19:10 in this interview: http://www.slot-machine-resource.com...an_8_11_11.mp3, but from his answer, it sounds like this is state dependent and Nevada doesn't have any case law addressing it.
    1. Aslan's Avatar
      Aslan -
      Quote Originally Posted by Nyne View Post
      That's ridiculous, but good to be aware of. Bob N. addressed this briefly starting at 19:10 in this interview: http://www.slot-machine-resource.com...an_8_11_11.mp3, but from his answer, it sounds like this is state dependent and Nevada doesn't have any case law addressing it.
      They have the capability, but whether they use it or not is known only to them. These things have a way of coming to light but I wouldn't hold my breath.
    1. Norm's Avatar
      Norm -
      Quote Originally Posted by Nyne View Post
      but that it probably wouldn't be of much value to the casinos due to the noise, people talking over each other, etc.
      The device in the OP solves this as it is tuned to the human voice and four are placed at each table.
    1. Aslan's Avatar
      Aslan -
      Always play as if you are being observed in every manner. I.e., don't just play to the camera.
    1. Three's Avatar
      Three -
      Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
      Always play as if you are being observed in every manner. I.e., don't just play to the camera.
      Yes. It is illegal to record but not to listen. Most of us are more worried about what they hear not that they can reproduce it. These laws are generally passed with the sole purpose of repercussions against whistle blowers and making their recordings inadmissible in court. It is nice to be corrupt when you can write laws that protect yourself from prosecution.

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