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Thread: Rookie, looking for some guidance

  1. #1


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    Rookie, looking for some guidance

    Greetings,

    Recently read a couple books , practiced a little , got Blackjack Verite, and excited by all the stories.
    However, I'm a very rookie player, full time job, and not much time left for practice.
    I go to the casino , and if I make 300$ I leave, about once a week, maybe twice on the weekend.

    I read a post by Al Mucuos about the "lifestyle" of advantage player and it seems like it hit the bulls eye.
    So I'm not looking for a Full time gig, take the house down, etc. It seems very stressful and not sure if the benefits outweighs the cost(mental and everything that comes with the "lifestyle").
    But I understand to confidently go into a Casino , knowing the edge is on your side it takes a lot of practice.
    All I'm looking for, is to still go maybe once a week, but when I'm there not to gamble. I'm not a fan of Luck, I'm a fan of math. I just want to go in and play still small bets, but at least know what I'm doing. Just take out the gambling part.

    Problem is I was looking for people to practice with. I see posts about Moo's camp is coming up soon, and I will probably sign up, but never been on a camp, not sure what to expect. Being on a team I'd expect there's a level of "good" that might be expected and it might be preferable for someone looking for Full time.
    Bottom line and my question is:

    Are there people looking for "non-professional" practice. I mean to learn to be good and go in confidently in a casino, it takes a lot of practice, and if I practice in a Casino, it will cost me a lot of money. Are there groups, or "teams" that count cards part time, but where I can get the beginning level of practice?

    and I have considered the response "You are lazy, that's not how it works. It is not fun, takes a lot of work and it's not easy"
    I actually think it's fun, but not doing it by yourself. And all my friends that play often, gamble, aka. have a "strategy" that is shit.Or the other rest of them think beating the casino is impossible, dealers get fired if they loose money, they break your legs in the back room if you make money, etc.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    I don't know of any group that just practices together and I think it would be hard to find anything like that based close to you unless you started one yourself. I also think you are making something complicated out of something very simple. Go here and read this book: http://qfit.com/book/index.htm or buy a book containing hi-lo. Read it and go here: https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-school/.

    You say you play two or so times a week. If that's the case, you have plenty of time to practice. Make some flash cards of basic strategy, use CVBJ to practice your counting. Of course the advanced strategies etc used by professionals can be very complicated but card counting is easy with a little practice.

    If you learn basic strategy, how to use a simple count and bet small, you are not going to lose a lot of money because you will be playing at a slight advantage and you can always call it a day if you lose a little more than you are comfortable with. No big deal.

    Forget all the stories you heard. I don't think you are going to be making enough to get anyone fired and I don't think anyone breaks legs over a 5 buck bet.

    Relax and enjoy yourself, it's all blue skies and rainbows.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

  3. #3
    Senior Member Nikky_Flash's Avatar
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    I practiced online -and memorized basic st , for about 9 months before I sat at a real table.also read like 3 books and norms free one ..yeah it was different in a real casino, and I sucked first three times I played but oh well , that's life.. ... you don't really need a group of people to practice with , if you already are used to a real game , you probably will be OK counting too...good luck -I mean , math

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    You don't share where you are on the continuum of learning the required skills to be "good". But reading between the lines I would expect basic strategy has some holes. As I was once told, you eat an elephant one bit at a time and you may be taking too big a bite. The process can be broken down into three components and they are additive to your skill set as you progress. Those components are 1) Basic Strategy 2) HiLo Counting with a running count and converting to a true count 3)departures from basic strategy.

    In my opinion you should focus on basic strategy until it is perfect, not almost perfect, but perfect. Do not enter a blackjack game until this is done. At this point you have reduced the casinos edge to about half percent. Learning to count is easier if you know the sequence of techniques to teach it. It then is a matter of practice, both at home and in the casino. At this point, you have the information to determine if you have an advantage and will need some guidance on proper betting.

    Adding departures for your described level of play is not necessary nor worth the effort for the return. Once you have gotten to the True Count controlling your betting decisions then you can win. Should you choose to move to the third level then I recommend you learn the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 as they will provide most of the value for the effort.

    Find a mentor and practice. Hope this helps.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

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    Agree with what Stealth said. I would add to learn the basic strategy chart you are most likely to play. This likely means 4+ decks, h17, ds with and without surrender. Doesn't make a lot of sense to learn the s17 chart first if 99% of the games you play are hit 17.
    .There are a couple differences between h17, s17 or double deck, but most of them are close and would be among the basic strategy departures/index plays you would want to learn when you get to that point anyways.

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    I've only played 6deck and no surrender . Dealer hits S17. Pretty good with Basic Strategy, but not perfect. Hi Lo I lose the count , often
    Thanks to everyone for the replies.

    Has anyone tried a blackjack school ? I mean not the here and there camp, or Online course/website . I mean you sign up for classes and go practice , and can keep signing on more and more advanced. As this Forum would show, there's plenty to go on and learn.

    Maybe the worst possible analogy , but imagine a Stand up Comedian Classes.....complete BS but they make a lot of money, there's always people, 99% of the people will never make it, the 1 percent will do stand up and plays, for free for at least a year or 2, till they get paid, and the school charges for tickets. etc. (I had a friend who wants to do stand up)

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    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

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    doesn't open , I signed up for the forum couple weeks ago, still haven't updated the paid side

  9. #9
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by centera View Post
    doesn't open , I signed up for the forum couple weeks ago, still haven't updated the paid side
    Things I did to improve my game

    Some of these things you may have already heard but there are other things that can benefit you. If they work for someone with ADHD and Dyslexia then they can work for anyone. Some of this information I got through reading and some I developed on my own.

    Accuracy first. As usual B.S. first. The speed will come fairly fast afterward. Getting speed is a rather easier part of this. You do not know B.S. until a bomb goes off next to you and you can still play it. I had also found that memorizing the deviations much easier after mastering basic strategy.

    GET CVBJ! Indispensable! You will not realize how inaccurate you might be until you use it! When I first started out I thought there was something wrong with the software. But through focusing and concentration I got it down. That meant stopping, pausing and checking the count. If the count was off then click on “Show Last Hand” and see were you went off. After going through sometimes one shoe my head would hurt. LOL. Also, using CVBJ will help greatly when doing some of the excercises mentioned later. Remember to focus! Focus! Focus! BTW, counting down a deck of cards and naming the last card is not the same thing.

    To speed up/get better, use CVBJ at short high intensity bursts. This is your speed workout! First use the DD shoe face up. Also, using the 2D shoe the errors won't get carried on throughout a longer 6/8D shoe. Then boredom after checking the count with using the wrong count setting in. Using the 2D shoe enables you to go faster for that shorter period of time. (However, if you do see that the count is off then go back and see where you were off. You won't believe how consistently you might make a mistake in one area.) This is very good for speed work; take a short interval of intensity, take a short break, then repeat. Yes this does work in BJ as well as running track. Remember to focus! Focus! Focus! It might seem that you are focusing too much but the level of focus will come in handily later when distractions are put into the mix.

    When playing on CVBJ turn up the speed until you have to focus fairly intensely – not extremely intensely - to keep the count. Then play at that level until you are
    very comfortable. Then repeat. You will be going faster than 90% of the dealers in a fairly short time; 2 – 3 weeks most likely.

    Play with fairly loud music on in the background. Make it louder than what's in the casino. After you master counting putting some music on serves as a distraction. In the beginning this was one of the harder things for me. However I could, in a short period of time, keep the count accurately. Remember to focus! Focus! Focus!

    Have someone distract you while practicing. You might have them ask you a question. While you have music on in the background, see if you remember the count, then answer the question that was put forth to you. Try to talk to them while maintaining the count. Have then start off with a “So where are you from?” LOL. Then later extend the conversation to other things. Try “ordering a drink”. After you have gotten down the conversation some other questions to ask you are “What time is it”? Later, use more questions with numbers in it e.g. “how do you play a particular hand in B.S.? “ This of course is to confuse you with the count. Then check the count to see if you can still keep it. But remember to build up the length of the conversation and do not immerse yourself into it all at once. Just add one question at a time until you are still accurate with the count then add in another question. Remember to focus! Focus! Focus! Later someone can talk to you like a chatty dealer who won't shut the ^(*) up.

    To stop getting confused when remembering if the count was a plus or minus keep the negative count in a foreign language. Yes that does seem to work. I have found that you will rarely be off.

    Fatigue. After practicing for a while if your count gets off then stop and take a break - figure around 15 minutes. Also take note of how long it took you to get tired! Before that point is when you should stop during real play; figure around a shoe or two before. Don't worry about the length of play time for now. You will extend it at a steady pace. At one time I could only count maybe two or three shoes and now I am up to at least ten!

    If you noticed that your game might have gone wrong in real play figure out what it was then practice at home. I have a lot of experience with this. In the beginning if the count was say +7 and the dealer announced a card total of 16 then I would sometimes start the count at 16! Or if anyone tried to talk to me I would most like lose the count. Sometimes I would just forget the count for no apparent reason. So at home I would just keep repeating the count to myself even more so. Or get up and do something for a very short time then try to remember the count. In play you will find yourself automatically correcting errors. Whenever a possible situation appears, in practice always try to remember the count first then check it. You want to work your brain.

    In general what ever environment you experience in a casino practice it at home and make it much worse! So, if there are ploppies galore at the casino, when practicing at home setup the players in CVBJ to be bad players. The same goes for everything previously mentioned.

    After getting speed down you might want to learn to play slower. What?!?! You said slower?!?!?! Yes I did. One of my favorite casinos has dealers that seem very slow. Though I love the rules there, my God, the dealers can be what seems like a slow motion death deal. Believe it or not, one can actually lose the count if the game is toooooo slooooow. So every so often practice going slow – then simulate with a friend by putting in the chatter mouth dealer and see how the counting goes. Myself with ADHD will almost die with a slow dealer. So it actually took some training for me to slow down to the speed of the dealer. But as usual, try to find a fast dealer: As it means more EV too. Semyon Dukach has this problem with slow dealers also. Mentioning that with a slow dealer he is more likely to lose the count.

    When practicing suddenly stop the game and check your concentration/focus. If you are not as sharp as could be then get focused. When restarting the game bear down and focus.

    Note: A main purpose of these exercises is to take away the countenance of concentration. Aside from bet spreading I think that the look of concentration is a tell tale signal to the PC on catching a counter.

    Remember that it's all about focus! Remember to focus! Focus! Focus! I understand that many things I said here seem like it's all a focusing issue due to my ADHD. However, I watched this one documentary on the MIT BJ Team and one person said that the focusing he had to do was almost as hard as working on his PhD. And you could teach a piece of firewood to count cards if the firewood could focus. This gives you the kind of idea of the different levels of intensity that's needed to count cards talked about here.

    Deviations. Memorize only 2 - 3 a day. It makes them stick a lot easier. Don't try to memorize them all at once since you will get most of them confused. Also start with the "easy ones to memorize." For example, 16 vs 10; stand on RC>0. Another easy one is splitting 10 against 4,5,6 against D 6,5,4. That's it for one day! In the next day or two learn a couple more.

    Eating. Get a snack every three hours or so along with plenty of water. It helps the brain stay sharp.

    And if I – an ADHD/Dyslexic - can do it, anyone can do it!
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Steer clear of all artificial sweeteners; i.e., sucralose, splenda, aspartame.

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    well said, hardest thing is the focus :-) for me, and I don't have ADHD .

    seems like solid advice , I got CVBJ , still think something is wrong with the count, not mine :-)

  12. #12
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by centera View Post
    well said, hardest thing is the focus :-) for me, and I don't have ADHD .

    seems like solid advice , I got CVBJ , still think something is wrong with the count, not mine :-)
    When I first started I thought there was a bug in the software. :-)
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

  13. #13
    Senior Member Nikky_Flash's Avatar
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    wow big jer - did u type all that out just now?

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