Tipping Dealers

[MidwestTom]

So me and my partner recently had a debate. We both had different opinions on whether visibly tipping dealers ( toking above your wager) increases longitivtiy even after you believe that multiple Floor Supervisors are aware of a continuously profitable betting pattern .

I understand that managment nor the surveillance department (the people that decide on a BO) profit off of tips/ Which is why he argues that it doesn't matter if your tipping or not, he believes once they suspect that your playing with an advantage the BO will follow regardless of tipping or not. However, from experience, I believe that management & surveillance may come to the assumption that since you are frequently tipping then you couldn't possibly be playing with an advantage (typical beliefs); only because higher ups believe that no card counter ever tips...

Note: I play at 3-5 stores and they pretty much all know me to tip, very little, but I do.

Please share your opinion on whether you believe that tipping the dealers may go a long way and essentially increase longitivtiy ..

[MJGolf]

Honestly, I think tipping helps. Especially here where some places allow the dealers to keep their own tips. I do it in a little different way. I let them earn the tip. They have to win the hand to win the tip. But they understand how I do it and all seem to appreciate it. Plus they seem to act as a little friendlier intermediary with the pit crew. So when a question or mistake comes up, they tend to support more toward player decision. And even the one/place that tip pools, when tipped, had one report higher losses to pit crew for record keeping. Don't know how that necessarily helps but if they list a loss when I'm even at a table, I'm ok with that.

Of course you can't overbet your bankroll. But most here bet high enough that a dollar toke here and there doesn't hurt their EV that much. But I consider tips/gratuities small consolation for enjoyment in the game. You tip servers, bell hops, valets, etc. Ensuring a better attitude at the table goes a long way. I don't even think the dealers expect it that much so that anyone who tips is appreciated. I know that apparently most players don't.

[Zach Black]

My opinion is that when the hammer is going to fall... tipping makes no difference to the people that make the decision.

Maybe a toke hustling dealer that feels stiffed will point out your play sooner when not tipping.

It's not possible to satisfy these types and make a profit, so better to avoid.

[bigplayer]

Tip them if you want, but keep your expectations very low. You can never tip enough if you win to keep the dealer from thinking you're a cheapskate. If you're a very high roller with an EV of $300+ per hour, then I think you can justify occasionally tipping red chips to maintain a loose table image (if that's important to you), but as a lower stakes players (red to green to light black) you probably can't afford it and tipping will gain you nothing.

Ask a dealer how much of a tip would be appropriate and they'll tell you 10% to 15% of your win. There's just no dealing with expectations like that. Best to just tip nothing.

[Nikky_Flash]

Tip them if you want, but keep your expectations very low. You can never tip enough if you win to keep the dealer from thinking you're a cheapskate. If you're a very high roller with an EV of $300+ per hour, then I think you can justify occasionally tipping red chips to maintain a loose table image (if that's important to you), but as a lower stakes players (red to green to light black) you probably can't afford it and tipping will gain you nothing.

Ask a dealer how much of a tip would be appropriate and they'll tell you 10% to 15% of your win. There's just no dealing with expectations like that. Best to just tip nothing.

Wise words *maked as helpful

[MidwestTom]

Tip them if you want, but keep your expectations very low. You can never tip enough if you win to keep the dealer from thinking you're a cheapskate. If you're a very high roller with an EV of $300+ per hour, then I think you can justify occasionally tipping red chips to maintain a loose table image (if that's important to you), but as a lower stakes players (red to green to light black) you probably can't afford it and tipping will gain you nothing.

Ask a dealer how much of a tip would be appropriate and they'll tell you 10% to 15% of your win. There's just no dealing with expectations like that. Best to just tip nothing.

Very good reply . You got me thinking now.. But here's the problem: In my case I play lengthy sessions, moving red to green. I'll occasionally toss up $1 toke wagers. I feel as if I trapped myself.. To never tip again (playing 2-6hr sessions) after tipping for the last 12-15 months would cause unwanted scrutiny. I've tried putting $1 bets ontop of my wager and just tossing the dealer the winning $1 & I'm such a "regular" at one store that the Floor Supervisor gave me shit about it in a joking manner. I was like hmmmm. OK. Lol

[bigplayer]

Track your tokes. You'll be unpleasantly shocked at the end of the year how much of your EV you gave away. Even tipping red chips it can add up to thousands by the end of the year. If you have a bad year I'm sure you'd rather have $2000 in your pocket than have it be in the dealers pocket.

[Jabberwocky]

I put the dealer on the side bet bonus to induce deeper pen. That's its best use.

[MidwestTom]

I put the dealer on the side bet bonus to induce deeper pen. That's its best use.

Thas another thread I wanted to start: when a new dealer comes in ill say something along the lines of "welp, this is my last shoe" or "lets make some money this shoe" and quickly follow with putting a toke wager up, hoping for a deep cut .

[MJGolf]

Very good reply . You got me thinking now.. But here's the problem: In my case I play lengthy sessions, moving red to green. I'll occasionally toss up $1 toke wagers. I feel as if I trapped myself.. To never tip again (playing 2-6hr sessions) after tipping for the last 12-15 months would cause unwanted scrutiny. I've tried putting $1 bets ontop of my wager and just tossing the dealer the winning $1 & I'm such a "regular" at one store that the Floor Supervisor gave me shit about it in a joking manner. I was like hmmmm. OK. Lol

You tip the same way that I do, I think. Make the dealer win the toke by putting it on top of your bet. I even ask them if they are gamblers and like to "parlay it" sometimes. Leaving it up to them. They know you control the bet since it's technically YOUR money. I think this makes them think more than just if you put it in front of your bet, the standard way. But don't ever let them "give you shit about it" joking or not. It's YOUR money. You choose whether to tip or not and I will be damned if I let anyone feel make me feel bad about tipping. I think that most here locally appreciate the tips honestly. But in Vegas, I have seen the surly attitudes. By some....not all dealers. Like you own them tips. But by just dealing the cards, they are not "owed" a tip. A tip IS a gratuity. Totally up to the player. And while I agree with big player that tips can add up, I feel that if least you only pay off a winning hand, they have "earned" it in a fashion. And yes, they CAN add up. But a $1 white chip toke when you are playing greens isn't that big a deal. It's the guys I see who put out red chips that seem to be over tipping. I guess it's all a matter of percentage, right?

Besides. Every card counter manual I have read says NOT to tip. Well do we always want to look like every card counter? Isn't that worth a little toking to camouflage your play even just a little?

[21forme]

Ask a dealer how much of a tip would be appropriate and they'll tell you 10% to 15% of your win.

Unless it's a BJ. Then they expect the 50% premium for the hand.

[Zach Black]

But a $1 white chip toke when you are playing greens isn't that big a deal.

A $1 toke buys you nothing, when you're betting chunky green.

The dealer will still feel stiffed and will give you the sarcastic "Thanks for playing" when you leave.

[SiMi]

This thread is starting to sound a lot like the 'tipping' scene from Reservoir Dogs!

SiMi