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Thread: Told ya so!

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbballar23 View Post
    Have you ever been in a casino? Literally every person in there is complaining about how tight the games are and how bad it is, it doesn't matter whether its S17 or H17, 1D or 8D. Those people also come back and play every day. Never underestimate how degenerate casino patrons are.
    Yes, I have been in casinos.

    We can whine and moan how terrible the games are when we're playing, but the advertising value of Mr & Mrs Ouchez is when they're going about their daily lives. The question "What are you doing this weekend?" gets answered "going to PA to gamble" instead of "going to AC to gamble" will get some attention, especially when the questioner knows the answer used to be AC.

    If a "Oh? Why's that?" comes along, the "it's a shorter drive, and the games are better" will make an impression.
    May the cards fall in your favor.

  2. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter View Post
    Yes, I have been in casinos.

    We can whine and moan how terrible the games are when we're playing, but the advertising value of Mr & Mrs Ouchez is when they're going about their daily lives. The question "What are you doing this weekend?" gets answered "going to PA to gamble" instead of "going to AC to gamble" will get some attention, especially when the questioner knows the answer used to be AC.

    If a "Oh? Why's that?" comes along, the "it's a shorter drive, and the games are better" will make an impression.
    The "it's a shorter drive" part is 99% of the impression, the "better games" is 1%.

  3. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbballar23 View Post
    The "it's a shorter drive" part is 99% of the impression, the "better games" is 1%.
    Also, it's not in a slum (with a couple of exceptions with nearby slums).

  4. #30


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    It'd be nice to see Revel bounce back with nothing but 6d games . If Glenn Straub decides to do this then I feel as if the rest of the stores on the boardwalk would be forced to do so as well. Revel has to do something, I went there on a Saturday night in August and there were literally one or two tables open per pit.

    Just wishful thinking ....

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbballar23 View Post
    The "it's a shorter drive" part is 99% of the impression, the "better games" is 1%.
    I can second that... Slots are where majority of casinos income derives from. Location, atmosphere, local economy, entertainment are just a few of the major factors that make a casino successful. Better blackjack and table games can only make you so much... Not to say that they shouldn't offer friendlier games... Like someone stated before, "20% of nothing is nothing. And 1% of steady play can be great".

    Throughout history casinos (mainly LV, Reno and AC) have caused surrounding local economies to "dry up". It's the nature of the business. When first built they spark the economy and provide many local jobs... But then it all comes down to a grind. The money that gets put into the economy comes right back into the casinos and gets eaten by the big corporations.

    We will see in the future the same thing happen to other casino markets too. There are places that will continue to thrive (NY area, SF area, LA area, etc) because they already have such a strong economy to support casinos. But it will slowly deteriorate the smaller markets like a lot of the Midwest and northern states.


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  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinHood21 View Post
    I can second that... Slots are where majority of casinos income derives from
    What you aren't factoring in is gamblers travel together. A big table games player will have a wife in tow playing $5 slot machines as fast a she can hit the button. A guys weekend goes to the casino that has the best game for the guy that has variability in game offerings. A small stakes BJ player may have high rolling ploppy buddies that play any number of other games. The games that are played within the group that have different offerings determine where they go because nobody else has a reason to have a preference. That means higher odds in craps and a better blackjack game are what will turn the group to your casino. There aren't many other game differences that would make one casino more attractive than the other. Then people get used to the new destination and don't go back even when nobody is lobbying for the new destination. They start bringing other friends. Etc etc. Any business owner knows the trick is first to get new customers in the door. It is much easier to keep a customer than find a new one. By not changing to compete they continually lose customers and aren't getting new ones to replace them. It is business 101 and they think it doesn't apply to gamblers when in fact it applies even more to gamblers.

    Case in point. My home state has had table games for quite a while and I still don't go to any of them. They have great rules but so do the places I am used to going. Their being closer doesn't matter much to me. I do very well and like what I am already doing. If the rules took a nose dive in neighboring states I would be hitting these casinos. So far the only difference is the home state casinos are reported to be high limits, crowded and smoky. I don't like any of these things and don't have to deal with any of these things in neighboring states. I would endure them for better rules closer to home but that isn't the case at this time.

  7. #33


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    What you aren't factoring in is gamblers travel together. A big table games player will have a wife in tow playing $5 slot machines as fast a she can hit the button. A guys weekend goes to the casino that has the best game for the guy that has variability in game offerings. A small stakes BJ player may have high rolling ploppy buddies that play any number of other games. The games that are played within the group that have different offerings determine where they go because nobody else has a reason to have a preference. That means higher odds in craps and a better blackjack game are what will turn the group to your casino. There aren't many other game differences that would make one casino more attractive than the other. Then people get used to the new destination and don't go back even when nobody is lobbying for the new destination. They start bringing other friends. Etc etc. Any business owner knows the trick is first to get new customers in the door. It is much easier to keep a customer than find a new one. By not changing to compete they continually lose customers and aren't getting new ones to replace them. It is business 101 and they think it doesn't apply to gamblers when in fact it applies even more to gamblers.

    Case in point. My home state has had table games for quite a while and I still don't go to any of them. They have great rules but so do the places I am used to going. Their being closer doesn't matter much to me. I do very well and like what I am already doing. If the rules took a nose dive in neighboring states I would be hitting these casinos. So far the only difference is the home state casinos are reported to be high limits, crowded and smoky. I don't like any of these things and don't have to deal with any of these things in neighboring states. I would endure them for better rules closer to home but that isn't the case at this time.
    You may be an exception. Most folks are not full time or major gamblers. It is still recreation to most. Because I have several casinos within 2-3 hours of me, I do not feel a great urge to go Atlantic City or even Las Vegas. Where, years ago,someone in New York or Connecticut or Pennsylvania might have gone to Atlantic City every weekend, they would not go to Atlantic city even if it matched PA rules in BJ and if you are a slot player or play other casino games, why fight traffic for several hours to get to AC when you can get to a casino where you can do the same thing in an hour??

  8. #34


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    What you aren't factoring in is gamblers travel together. A big table games player will have a wife in tow playing $5 slot machines as fast a she can hit the button. A guys weekend goes to the casino that has the best game for the guy that has variability in game offerings. A small stakes BJ player may have high rolling ploppy buddies that play any number of other games. The games that are played within the group that have different offerings determine where they go because nobody else has a reason to have a preference. That means higher odds in craps and a better blackjack game are what will turn the group to your casino. There aren't many other game differences that would make one casino more attractive than the other. Then people get used to the new destination and don't go back even when nobody is lobbying for the new destination. They start bringing other friends. Etc etc. Any business owner knows the trick is first to get new customers in the door. It is much easier to keep a customer than find a new one. By not changing to compete they continually lose customers and aren't getting new ones to replace them. It is business 101 and they think it doesn't apply to gamblers when in fact it applies even more to gamblers.

    Case in point. My home state has had table games for quite a while and I still don't go to any of them. They have great rules but so do the places I am used to going. Their being closer doesn't matter much to me. I do very well and like what I am already doing. If the rules took a nose dive in neighboring states I would be hitting these casinos. So far the only difference is the home state casinos are reported to be high limits, crowded and smoky. I don't like any of these things and don't have to deal with any of these things in neighboring states. I would endure them for better rules closer to home but that isn't the case at this time.
    1. Three, you are not a desirable customer for a casino so the fact that you drive further to better games is irrelevant if we are trying to help AC make more money.
    2. With the table game player and wife example, in my experience its more important that a casino have a particular type of slot machine that the wife likes rather than what the BJ rules are for the husband
    3. I understand your points about groups of guys being influenced by someone that cares about good rules and i'm sure that happens, but i think that is the extreme minority of cases.

    All of this comes back to my point that simply offering better BJ rules is nowhere near enough to stop or reverse the decline that AC has seen. Competition and convenience are the major factors at play here in my opinion.

    I think there is an argument that AC has not done enough to distinguish themselves from nearby competition but those are things unrelated to the quality of their BJ. Vegas has done an excellent job of this. Gambling will expand all around the world yet people are still going to book trips to vegas because it is so unlike any of the local casinos that people play at back home. People aren't flocking to vegas for good BJ rules.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbballar23 View Post
    1. Three, you are not a desirable customer for a casino so the fact that you drive further to better games is irrelevant if we are trying to help AC make more money.
    I said I drive further for the same game. The difference is the smoke, crowding and limits. The limits have no affect on my level of play. The reason I don't go is smoking and having great results elsewhere. Why change anything. The insentives I get elsewhere more than cover my travel expenses and time.
    Quote Originally Posted by mjbballar23 View Post
    3. I understand your points about groups of guys being influenced by someone that cares about good rules and i'm sure that happens, but i think that is the extreme minority of cases.
    Most gamblers I see are a part of a larger group. Men tend to risk more money and play table games more, except for the more delicate types. LOL Of course there is a wide range of risk tolerance and BR in both men and women as is the case with any true generalization.
    Quote Originally Posted by mjbballar23 View Post
    All of this comes back to my point that simply offering better BJ rules is nowhere near enough to stop or reverse the decline that AC has seen. Competition and convenience are the major factors at play here in my opinion.
    If that is so why do they still offer competitive rules to customers they don't want to lose? AC had a huge ego and forgot why people traveled so far to get there in the first place and why the were fine losing lots of money. It wasn't because they were the only game in the region. It was because for a weekend you were treated like royalty which was worth the cost of their loss and maybe they would win and get the royal treatment. Now they treat you like a disposable wipe. The people old enough to remember the old treatment are not impressed by the change in treatment.

    It is like going to a posh gourmet hunting or fishing lodge. They raise the price and get rid of the gourmet food while the hunting or fishing becomes worse. The sportsman that frequented the lodge are going to start looking for other options. If the price went up you might lose some that are pushing their budget but most would still come. If the food took a nose dive you would lose a lot that went there over another destination for the gourmet food. If the hunting or fishing tanked you would lose the serious sportsman but most would enjoy the gourmet food and being in the outdoors enough to keep coming back. You do all 3 and your lodge will be awfully quiet as you lose every one of these groups and more that would take a combination of lost groups to seek other options. It doesn't matter how the other options stack up against what you are now. Once they try the other options they are not likely to come back.

  10. #36


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    I said I drive further for the same game. The difference is the smoke, crowding and limits. The limits have no affect on my level of play. The reason I don't go is smoking and having great results elsewhere. Why change anything. The insentives I get elsewhere more than cover my travel expenses and time.


    Most gamblers I see are a part of a larger group. Men tend to risk more money and play table games more, except for the more delicate types. LOL Of course there is a wide range of risk tolerance and BR in both men and women as is the case with any true generalization.


    If that is so why do they still offer competitive rules to customers they don't want to lose? AC had a huge ego and forgot why people traveled so far to get there in the first place and why the were fine losing lots of money. It wasn't because they were the only game in the region. It was because for a weekend you were treated like royalty which was worth the cost of their loss and maybe they would win and get the royal treatment. Now they treat you like a disposable wipe. The people old enough to remember the old treatment are not impressed by the change in treatment.

    It is like going to a posh gourmet hunting or fishing lodge. They raise the price and get rid of the gourmet food while the hunting or fishing becomes worse. The sportsman that frequented the lodge are going to start looking for other options. If the price went up you might lose some that are pushing their budget but most would still come. If the food took a nose dive you would lose a lot that went there over another destination for the gourmet food. If the hunting or fishing tanked you would lose the serious sportsman but most would enjoy the gourmet food and being in the outdoors enough to keep coming back. You do all 3 and your lodge will be awfully quiet as you lose every one of these groups and more that would take a combination of lost groups to seek other options. It doesn't matter how the other options stack up against what you are now. Once they try the other options they are not likely to come back.
    Your hunting lodge would lose too if a half dozen decent lodges opened closer to home. If you wanted a cheaper lodge, you could find one within half the distance, if it's gourmet food, another lodge is nearby and if hunting is the priority, there us a good one closer too so why go all the way to AC?

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Your hunting lodge would lose too if a half dozen decent lodges opened closer to home. If you wanted a cheaper lodge, you could find one within half the distance, if it's gourmet food, another lodge is nearby and if hunting is the priority, there us a good one closer too so why go all the way to AC?
    I will not comment on the hunting stuff that you are very wrong about because its only purpose was for an analogy so the actual hunting stuff really doesn't apply.

    As for casinos it all depends on what you are looking for in a casino. Gamblers are creatures of habit and superstitious. If you don't give them a reason to look elsewhere most will keep coming back. If you make them feel they aren't getting what they used to they will test other destinations. It is funny, I see people from Maryland at other casinos a lot and most have never been to a Maryland casino. This doesn't mean much because maybe the ones that did go to one aren't at casinos in other states. It does show that many gamblers are creatures of habit and go where they are lucky and comfortable and to the destinations that offer the best incentives to show up. I finally got offered incentives good enough to visit a Maryland casino. I won't be back except when another incentive happens. No free drinks, even in the Diamond Club. It was crowded and smoky and while the limits where high I play higher limits anyway. I have another $500 free slot to show up a second time. That may be the last time they see me.

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