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Thread: Transitioning to counting

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    Transitioning to counting

    I've been playing and seriously studying blackjack for a little over a year now. After having some success as a basic strategy player only, I've gotten serious about learning to count and am making good strides towards that goal. My only real hang up right now is making the transition from practice counting to applying counting practically towards my game.

    I know my counting skills are solid, not where they need to be quite yet, but very close. I just seem to develop some kind of mental block when I apply my counting skills to an actual game, be it for practice or in real time. My question for you guys is if any of you experienced anything similar to this while you were learning, and how you overcame it. Thanks.

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    Your post is somewhat confusing, so I would need a little more info. What way are you practicing your counting now that makes you think you are "solid"? What system are you using? My guess is you don't have Basic Strategy down well enough to be automatic, and thus when you try counting and playing, your counting gets interrupted by actively trying to remember BS. Just a guess.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie D View Post
    I just seem to develop some kind of mental block when I apply my counting skills to an actual game, be it for practice or in real time. My question for you guys is if any of you experienced anything similar to this while you were learning, and how you overcame it.
    I can't say I remember this issue but I have been counting for decades so who knows. I do remember changing systems or learning other games and had some realtime issues to deal with. If actual practice games have the same issue, as you seem to have indicated, practice this way until the glitch is worked out. Then try the casino. When I was testing my preparation at the casino I always used a smaller spread. To me the goal was to see if I was ready yet on those trips rather than to make money. The first time I tried the system "upgrade" I wasn't ready and spent a couple more months prepping. The next time after some play I went to what I planned to play in terms of spread.

    Don't forget to learn the money management aspect of card counting. Your success is tied as much to managing your BR and RoR as it is to your ability to count. Many CC fail because they don't realize this fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie D View Post
    I know my counting skills are solid, not where they need to be quite yet, but very close. I just seem to develop some kind of mental block when I apply my counting skills to an actual game, be it for practice or in real time. My question for you guys is if any of you experienced anything similar to this while you were learning, and how you overcame it. Thanks.
    Keep practicing. When you practice enough you will overcome the problem you are experiencing.

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    Senior Member Nikky_Flash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie D View Post
    My question for you guys is if any of you experienced anything similar to this while you were learning, and how you overcame it. Thanks.
    The Casino with all the noise and talking and real money (or at least chips) on the table is different for sure , especially when the dealer says the card totals - that threw me for a loop at first - I couldn't think if the RC really was 16? or did the dealer just say "16"? ah man, I lost count now" that was how one session ended for me , but still won 45 bucks that day, and when people at the table are buzzed and want to talk , not in a bad way , but just the friendly chit-chat , yes , it can make it hard to remember the count ... just keep practicing , Norms software is great for realism , it changes the cards when you use the Demo version , but you get a good feel for the realism ( you can set it for the dealer says the card totals , I would recommend practicing like that ... count at the house with a movie playing loud, I carry a deck everywhere , count it down in the grocery store line , lots of numbers being talked about in the line ... count down a deck while someones asking you stuff ... etc ... that's what I did , I haven't had problems counting at real tables for a long time ...
    “It seemed to me ... that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include a set of detailed instructions for use in a package of toothpicks, was no longer a civilization in which I could live and stay sane.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie D View Post
    I've been playing and seriously studying blackjack for a little over a year now. After having some success as a basic strategy player only, I've gotten serious about learning to count and am making good strides towards that goal. My only real hang up right now is making the transition from practice counting to applying counting practically towards my game.

    I know my counting skills are solid, not where they need to be quite yet, but very close. I just seem to develop some kind of mental block when I apply my counting skills to an actual game, be it for practice or in real time. My question for you guys is if any of you experienced anything similar to this while you were learning, and how you overcame it. Thanks.
    I'm about 3 months into counting, 2 months into real table play and I can say at first I had similar issues. I practiced my ass off to get to a point where I was both consistent with my spread and extremely accurate with my count, and then I transitioned into real play after about 3 weeks of practicing. It threw me off at first because now I was playing a "mental" game with myself while playing. Though, one advantage I did have over some is that I've been playing Blackjack just shy of a decade now as a basic strategy player, so the noise and whatnot didn't bother me at all, but sometimes I'd hear the dealer say "nine" when I had a +8 RC and it threw me off, mainly because in my head I'd say "2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6" instead of "plus". Once I switched to saying "plus" in my head, I totally broke all confusion. At first it was a little dicey because I felt mildly paranoid despite my relaxed demeanor as a "regular" at my local joints, but that soon wore off, as yours will too with time.

    In all honesty, aside from the issue with the "plus" in my head before I changed that up, my biggest issue was table positioning. I found it very, very hard to count from one side of the table vs the other at first, and it definitely threw me off more than anything, so I started rotating table positions into my early days of counting so that I could break through that barrier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikky_Flash View Post
    The Casino with all the noise and talking and real money (or at least chips) on the table is different for sure , especially when the dealer says the card totals - that threw me for a loop at first - I couldn't think if the RC really was 16? or did the dealer just say "16"? ah man, I lost count now" that was how one session ended for me , but still won 45 bucks that day, and when people at the table are buzzed and want to talk , not in a bad way , but just the friendly chit-chat , yes , it can make it hard to remember the count ... just keep practicing , Norms software is great for realism , it changes the cards when you use the Demo version , but you get a good feel for the realism ( you can set it for the dealer says the card totals , I would recommend practicing like that ... count at the house with a movie playing loud, I carry a deck everywhere , count it down in the grocery store line , lots of numbers being talked about in the line ... count down a deck while someones asking you stuff ... etc ... that's what I did , I haven't had problems counting at real tables for a long time ...
    Same way for me at first, really kind of screwed with me. Like you, I too keep a deck of cards basically anywhere I go. My house, my Mothers house, my Dads house, In the car, in the office, everywhere.

    Now I've developed to a point where I can count singles, hands, tables, chew bubble gum, talk with the dealer about the baseball game going on, harass the floor guys a little bit, and keep track of the count with very precise accuracy.

    I treat blackjack like a sport, and it is IMO. I practice very, very hard and in many different types of "pressure" situations so that I don't slip up, and its paid dividends. Some people just say "count down a deck in less than 30 seconds without missing a card and you are good". That's not good enough for me, do it in 30 seconds with a loud movie in the background and someone in your ear saying random numbers, and you're solid.

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    Senior Member Nikky_Flash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
    Though, one advantage I did have over some is that I've been playing Blackjack just shy of a decade now as a basic strategy player, so the noise and whatnot didn't bother me at all, but sometimes I'd hear the dealer say "nine" when I had a +8 RC and it threw me off,
    Right , when I first played in a real casino , I didn't care if the dealer said totals and stuff , just when it got close to the RC , actually not close to the RC but like one digit apart , like 13 to 14, or 18 to 17 ect ... it seemed to throw me for some reason... went back to practice and fixed that real quick , of all the things to say what I was ready for , and not ready for , it was that ... lol

    [QUOTE=Exoter175;137414
    ...... Some people just say "count down a deck in less than 30 seconds without missing a card and you are good". That's not good enough for me, do it in 30 seconds with a loud movie in the background and someone in your ear saying random numbers, and you're solid.[/QUOTE]

    agreed %100
    “It seemed to me ... that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include a set of detailed instructions for use in a package of toothpicks, was no longer a civilization in which I could live and stay sane.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikky_Flash View Post
    Right , when I first played in a real casino , I didn't care if the dealer said totals and stuff , just when it got close to the RC , actually not close to the RC but like one digit apart , like 13 to 14, or 18 to 17 ect ... it seemed to throw me for some reason... went back to practice and fixed that real quick , of all the things to say what I was ready for , and not ready for , it was that ... lol



    agreed %100
    Yeah, it was never the "Soft 18" When I had an RC of 4 that got me, it was when the dealer said the very next possible number in sequence up or down from the RC that got me like clockwork at first lol. Suffice to say, there were a number of times I'd have walked out with a slightly higher total had I not thought the count was lower than it was thanks to the dealer throwing me off like that.

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    Intermediate: Sorry I wasn't more clear. To answer your questions, I use hi-lo, and as far as the counting skill(s) go, when counting down with a physical deck, I have an average time of 21 seconds (I know accuracy is more important than speed but when I started learning I understood you wanted to be able to get to a certain speed, and I found using a physical deck the best way to do this.) and when I practice online I usually have between one to two mistakes when counting through six decks. I'm trying to get that to zero, of course. I don't have a problem remembering BS when playing; if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say I psych myself out more than anything. Not enough confidence and all that. I have had no problems so far keeping up the count when at a live table. I just find my mind going blank at times, and I'm sure its all psychological. I was just curious if anybody else had gone through similar issues when they were learning. Thanks for the reply.

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    Thanks for all the replies guys, and for not making me feel like an idiot with my first post! Your replies have been very useful.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie D View Post
    Intermediate: Sorry I wasn't more clear. To answer your questions, I use hi-lo, and as far as the counting skill(s) go, when counting down with a physical deck, I have an average time of 21 seconds (I know accuracy is more important than speed but when I started learning I understood you wanted to be able to get to a certain speed, and I found using a physical deck the best way to do this.) and when I practice online I usually have between one to two mistakes when counting through six decks. I'm trying to get that to zero, of course. I don't have a problem remembering BS when playing; if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say I psych myself out more than anything. Not enough confidence and all that. I have had no problems so far keeping up the count when at a live table. I just find my mind going blank at times, and I'm sure its all psychological. I was just curious if anybody else had gone through similar issues when they were learning. Thanks for the reply.
    If you're doing a physical deck in 21 seconds, you've got me crushed in that regard and are well ahead of the curve. I don't believe most guys on here can count a deck down that fast physically. My average speed is around 25-26 seconds, and I feel like I'm on top of the world at that pace.

    You're going to do just fine with that kind of speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie D View Post
    Thanks for all the replies guys, and for not making me feel like an idiot with my first post! Your replies have been very useful.
    Its what we are all here for. 2 or 3 months ago I was the new guy on the block, and now these guys have given me some of the best advice you could ever wish for, and its quickly molding me into a capable player. You will too if you practice hard enough and keep up the good work!

  12. #12


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    Winnie: Deck estimation and tc calculation are important as well. Counting is easy, can you sit first base and make good playing decisions without feeling pressure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
    If you're doing a physical deck in 21 seconds, you've got me crushed in that regard and are well ahead of the curve. I don't believe most guys on here can count a deck down that fast physically. My average speed is around 25-26 seconds, and I feel like I'm on top of the world at that pace.

    You're going to do just fine with that kind of speed.
    I'd say most are in the 20 +/- 2s range. Counting really is the easy part. Give me 10 minutes practice and I believe I could do almost every count in <25 seconds.



    Quote Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
    Its what we are all here for. 2 or 3 months ago I was the new guy on the block, and now these guys have given me some of the best advice you could ever wish for, and its quickly molding me into a capable player. You will too if you practice hard enough and keep up the good work!
    I read these forums, I have a decent understanding of almost everything I see. I am still a new guy though. There is so much I don't know about that is likely never to be discussed on open forum. I think of the forums as high school. I'm going to have to work hard and spend resources to get through college, and once I've proven myself I might be able to make it in graduate school.
    Maman died today. Or yesterday maybe, I don't know.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie D View Post
    I don't have a problem remembering BS when playing; if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say I psych myself out more than anything. Not enough confidence and all that. I have had no problems so far keeping up the count when at a live table. I just find my mind going blank at times, and I'm sure its all psychological. .
    WD - Can't say I had the problem with my mind going blank. Can you me more specific about when that might happen to you? Are you doing True Count conversions and ramping your bets and making play variations? FWIW, as you practice and your confidence grows, you'll find it easier to multi-task and carry on conversations with other players and pit personnel, and so your circle of awareness grows. If you start to doubt your count, don't dwell on it, and if you're fortunate, the shoe will end soon. When you take a break, review what happened and think about a change to improve your technique.

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