Article on 6-5 blackjack

**RWM** · 07-22-2014, 08:32 AM

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/busi...ht-hand-86193/

(Sorry Norm, I forgot how to put it in News.)

**Norm** · 07-22-2014, 08:50 AM

W need an article like this published every day.

**21forme** · 07-22-2014, 08:51 AM

Tamburin says. Single-deck blackjack games are generally considered the most player-friendly because they allow players to better anticipate which cards may be coming.

Oh, so that's why...

Bottom line, players may not know the math, but they do notice their money doesn't last as long. If the casinos are trying to discourage repeat business, they're on the right track.

KJ · 07-22-2014, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

Bottom line, players may not know the math, but they do notice their money doesn't last as long. If the casinos are trying to discourage repeat business, they're on the right track.

This is exactly my take on it, and it applies not only to BJ and table games, but video poker and slots as well. Casino's tighten up the paytables and payouts, and players may not know what that means by the math. They may not know exactly how bad 8/5 JoB is compared to 9/6 JoB. But they do recognize that they go through their money quicker and win less often.

A few interesting quotes from the article:

"The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority reports that visitors who said they gambled during their stay has declined steadily from 86 percent in 2006 to 71 percent in 2013. Over the same span, the average time that gamblers have spent at the tables and slot machines has dropped from 3.3 hours to 2.9 hours per day". ,

and

"People simply aren’t playing as much. Gaming is becoming less and less of an attraction,” Thompson says. Instead, casinos are seeing an increasing share of their revenue come from other entertainment, like restaurants and night clubs".

Several years ago, Vegas made a specific decision to go away from gaming. To incorporate more shopping, dining, night clubs and other activities into the visitor's experience. Higher end restaurants and shopping at nearly every casino now. A "Take down the Treasure Island Pirate boat show and put up more shopping" mentality all up and down the strip. And now the numbers indicate this strategy has worked and now they throw up there hands and say, "But people are gambling less?" I don't get it.

**Blitzkrieg** · 07-22-2014, 01:03 PM

“It’s like a hidden tax that you’re being charged by the casinos,” Table game inflation. This allows the casino to keep a little more by short changing the players. With all the other casinos that have opened up outside of Vegas, who needs to go to Vegas? There has been an explosion in the amount of currency created since 2008, don't people find it odd that it hasn't made it's way to the man on the street? And the casinos wonder why revenues are down, damn. Caesars CEO knows something about banking since he is an ex Fed chief and economist, in fact he should know all about it.

I have to admit that I played a 6:5 game no too long ago and walked away with a nice win. It was my first time playing 6:5 and I hate the 6:5 payout. Within an hour or so of play I managed to get dealt about 20 Blackjacks and I could feel the pinch on the BJ payoffs even though I was playing with their money. If I did not have to wait on other people at this casino I more than likely would not have played the game at all.

**RevJordan** · 07-22-2014, 01:15 PM

Last time I was in Vegas, I followed a beautiful Kenyan dealer from a $25 dollar 3:2 table to an empty $10 6:5 table without realizing it at first. She still paid me 3:2 I don't think she realized either. I liked the 6:5 table this day.

**Eagle Eye** · 07-22-2014, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

“It’s like a hidden tax that you’re being charged by the casinos,” Table game inflation. This allows the casino to keep a little more by short changing the players. With all the other casinos that have opened up outside of Vegas, who needs to go to Vegas? There has been an explosion in the amount of currency created since 2008, don't people find it odd that it hasn't made it's way to the man on the street? And the casinos wonder why revenues are down, damn. Caesars CEO knows something about banking since he is an ex Fed chief and economist, in fact he should know all about it.

I have to admit that I played a 6:5 game no too long ago and walked away with a nice win. It was my first time playing 6:5 and I hate the 6:5 payout. Within an hour or so of play I managed to get dealt about 20 Blackjacks and I could feel the pinch on the BJ payoffs even though I was playing with their money. If I did not have to wait on other people at this casino I more than likely would not have played the game at all.

So you had 20 BJ in a hour ? That had to be some kind of world record. Was it 1d or 6d ?

**bigplayer** · 07-22-2014, 02:42 PM

that players don't play as long is mathematically predictable. The house just wipes them out faster with it's bigger edges. Notice most of the slot floor is now made up of 1c to 5c machines where you can play 180 coins a spin against a 10% to 12% house edge versus an equal amount of money per spin on the old style $1 slots like Double Diamond where a 3% to 8% house advantage was typical.

Another example of casino greed is the change CZR's just made to the 21+3 game. Where the +3 bet pays 9/1 on all pays the house edge is 3.2%. Now they have Extreme 21+3 with a variety of payoffs ranging from 30-1 down to 5-1 and the house edge is now 13.4%. It's not just blackjack where casino greed is killing the golden goose. They've obviously made a decision to bust players out quickly rather than milk them over time.

**Blitzkrieg** · 07-22-2014, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Eagle Eye

So you had 20 BJ in a hour ? That had to be some kind of world record. Was it 1d or 6d ?

It was a SD game. Probably not a record but I got a lot of them dealt to me in a short amount of time compared to the last several times I have played the game. The 6:5 payout is bad enough but after I scored and turned a quick profit I hit the cash cage and was out the door.

**Blitzkrieg** · 07-22-2014, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by bigplayer

Another example of casino greed is the change CZR's just made to the 21+3 game. Where the +3 bet pays 9/1 on all pays the house edge is 3.2%. Now they have Extreme 21+3 with a variety of payoffs ranging from 30-1 down to 5-1 and the house edge is now 13.4%. It's not just blackjack where casino greed is killing the golden goose. They've obviously made a decision to bust players out quickly rather than milk them over time.

I've always wondered if there was a way to strategize the 3 card poker side bet offered on some BJ tables, overall I think it is a sucker bet. I view the 3 card poker side bet in several ways. First, it slows the game speed up. Second, while it slows the game up for the dealer to collect bets and make payoffs it allows a counter to ensure an accurate count.

Normally I see a lot of gamblers make the 3 card side bet only to get their bankrolls hammered in nothing flat. If people do get lucky and happen to hit it a few times they just go up on the side bet every hand and proceed to give back their winnings faster. I also think it serves as a way to get people out of their BJ game to where they are playing a losing game because of BJ and 3 card poker bets being made simultaneously.

I think it's better to rent the spot out to the other players on the table while letting them know beforehand that I will collect a $5 vig on any hits while giving the rest of the winnings back to the player who wants to place the bet.

**Three** · 07-23-2014, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

I could feel the pinch on the BJ payoffs even though I was playing with their money.

Were they putting up your bet from the chip tray or giving you free bet coupons to use. If the chips came from your stack it is your money not house money. I guess you view all the chips that you won as still their chips until you cash them out because you intend on playing stupid with them and most likely giving them back? That is exactly what they are hoping people will do.

The average gambler will lose so much and then stop playing. They are gambling on a budget with their disposable income. If you want to make sure they don't come back raise the house edge. They will soon notice that they are having bad luck and view any success they had prior as the aberration. hey quickly learn they rarely get a chance to leave a winner. The trap has no cheese to lure the mouse. They used to play a long time before losing their budgeted amount. They used to actually get some cheese from the trap and leave with a win only to come back with a bigger budget and lose it back later. There used to be cheese to be had in the form of comps fit for royalty. It justified much bigger gambling budgets because not only did you get entertainment for a time before you lost your budget but it ALLOWED YOU TO BE TREATED LIKE YOU WOULD NEVER BE TREATED ELSEWHERE. You would be royalty for a time justifying a much larger gambling budget than simple "entertainment" at the tables would. The casino and its bean counters have worked hard to destroy a once thriving business.

**Blitzkrieg** · 07-23-2014, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Were they putting up your bet from the chip tray or giving you free bet coupons to use. If the chips came from your stack it is your money not house money. I guess you view all the chips that you won as still their chips until you cash them out because you intend on playing stupid with them and most likely giving them back? That is exactly what they are hoping people will do.

The average gambler will lose so much and then stop playing. They are gambling on a budget with their disposable income. If you want to make sure they don't come back raise the house edge. They will soon notice that they are having bad luck and view any success they had prior as the aberration. hey quickly learn they rarely get a chance to leave a winner. The trap has no cheese to lure the mouse. They used to play a long time before losing their budgeted amount. They used to actually get some cheese from the trap and leave with a win only to come back with a bigger budget and lose it back later. There used to be cheese to be had in the form of comps fit for royalty. It justified much bigger gambling budgets because not only did you get entertainment for a time before you lost your budget but it ALLOWED YOU TO BE TREATED LIKE YOU WOULD NEVER BE TREATED ELSEWHERE. You would be royalty for a time justifying a much larger gambling budget than simple "entertainment" at the tables would. The casino and its bean counters have worked hard to destroy a once thriving business.

You have a point in that it isn't mine until I cash them out at the cage, which is what I did.

**Three** · 07-23-2014, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

You have a point in that it isn't mine until I cash them out at the cage

My point is the chips in front of you are yours not the casinos. Tell me which chips in the stack are your buyin and which chips are "house money". there is no difference. The houses chips are in the chip tray and your money is your stack. Viewing any of your money as house money has what benefit or consequences. I don't see a benefit but if you play recklessly with your chips because you view them as house money that is a consequence.