Asm

[Three]

Believe it or not, a good counter (IMO) is weighed not in his accuracy of the count, but in his ability to survey his surroundings while remaining accurate to the count, while drawing no attention to himself.

Might want to spend a little more time peeking around.

Robin has worked in the pit on the other side of the table. I think he learned more about what is going on through his work experience for casinos and from the contacts he has among fellow casino personnel than you could learn looking around while playing and trying to guess about what it is that you are seeing. I am guessing you didn't research who he is which is a must when trying to get the most out if a site. If you want to try to bring the same expertise about the other side of the table get a job working the pit for a number of years and be that employee that wants to learn everything about everything.

[Exoter175]

Robin has worked in the pit on the other side of the table. I think he learned more about what is going on through his work experience for casinos and from the contacts he has among fellow casino personnel than you could learn looking around while playing and trying to guess about what it is that you are seeing. I am guessing you didn't research who he is which is a must when trying to get the most out if a site. If you want to try to bring the same expertise about the other side of the table get a job working the pit for a number of years and be that employee that wants to learn everything about everything.

I don't care who he is, or where he's worked T3, I've seen the software first hand, I've seen it entered first hand. And as far as comps and Hosts goes, I have one, I religiously check account, and absolutely none of what I'm given is deducted from my account, past, present, or otherwise.

Its quite obvious that where he worked differs from where I play, and I'd wager some large stakes on the fact that his player status isn't even remotely a fraction of mine.

So when I say I've seen protec21 off the table, and in the pit of one of my local joints, its there. When I say that I get a free hotel room whenever I please, it happens, at no cost to me. He might know more having been in the industry, but that means absolutely nothing if it isn't at my joint.

/end of discussion.

[Three]

Its quite obvious that where he worked differs from where I play, and I'd wager some large stakes on the fact that his player status isn't even remotely a fraction of mine.

I think you might lose that bet.

Many places free rooms are based on your previous play. Comps are based on the play you give on that trip and previous trips from a point pool that you can see. So basically in addition to the points you can see you generate a pool of points you can't see that pay for free stuff while your points you can see pay for comps.

Marketing can offer free rooms to anybody if they know they will be empty anyway. If they are trying to fill rooms with the most desirable players when they will likely be sold out free room offers are offered to players whose play have generated more points/day in the unseen pool of points (daily theoretical loss is a more accurate way of putting it). Many times they block off a certain number of rooms for the free offer during a prime day. If they are all used up getting a comped room may be your only option despite the offer of a free room.

I don't care who he is, or where he's worked T3, I've seen the software first hand, I've seen it entered first hand

I suspect you saw things being manually entered as you play. I doubt you had first hand knowledge of the software if you are not a casino employee or one of the programmers that work as an IC. You indicated that you play high stakes. If you play a certain denomination or higher the Floor is responsible for tracking every chip of that denomination or higher. Usually the dealer reports this info to the Floor if it is busy. If you play when it is not busy often the Floor will get a more accurate accounting of these chips by entering them as they are lost and won without need of the dealer by watching the table and entering them. I suspect that you may have seen this since you lead us to believe that you play at high stakes.

[Exoter175]

I think you might lose that bet.

Many places free rooms are based on your previous play. Comps are based on the play you give on that trip and previous trips from a point pool that you can see. So basically in addition to the points you can see you generate a pool of points you can't see that pay for free stuff while your points you can see pay for comps.

Marketing can offer free rooms to anybody if they know they will be empty anyway. If they are trying to fill rooms with the most desirable players when they will likely be sold out free room offers are offered to players whose play have generated more points/day in the unseen pool of points (daily theoretical loss is a more accurate way of putting it). Many times they block off a certain number of rooms for the free offer during a prime day. If they are all used up getting a comped room may be your only option despite the offer of a free room.


I suspect you saw things being manually entered as you play. I doubt you had first hand knowledge of the software if you are not a casino employee or one of the programmers that work as an IC. You indicated that you play high stakes. If you play a certain denomination or higher the Floor is responsible for tracking every chip of that denomination or higher. Usually the dealer reports this info to the Floor if it is busy. If you play when it is not busy often the Floor will get a more accurate accounting of these chips by entering them as they are lost and won without need of the dealer by watching the table and entering them. I suspect that you may have seen this since you lead us to believe that you play at high stakes.

T3, I know how the freebies work buddy, been hustling them for a long time now. My point is specifically in regards to hosts, which Robin is wrong. MY hosts will add whatever I ask for, to my account or sign it out themselves. I pay nothing, my comps/points receive not deduction, and my daily/monthly/yearly perks stay the same or grow, that's it.

In regards to Robin and I's player status, I don't think you understood my point there. I'm what the industry calls a "high roller" on a few specific types of games, and this gives me top card and my being showered with freebies. I eat for free 24/7/365, hotel whenever I please, free alcohol (not in vegas) and a plethora of freebie fun stuff like VIP tournaments and such.

As for your inkling that I am a high stakes player, you are incorrect. I am a redchipper at blackjack, and my hours of play are probably the nearest rival to KJ on this forum. I've been a 4-5 day a week guy now for the better part of a decade T3, and now I've moved more of my play towards APBJ than my other AP tricks.

As for what I've seen, Protec21 is exactly what I saw, and if you Protec21 like I do, then you know there's multiple ways of information feeding. A floor guy can check some, if not most information at the panel, but some of the larger items like the fluctuation charts, count tables, and hand play input is usually upstairs. With one exception being that the central hub of the pit also has hand play input for when you're really being watched, or sometimes when its just slow play and they want to find something to do.

Trust me when I say this T3, when I visually looked at my player position being the one brought up, and I can see my average bet, my average fluctuation, my player advantage/house advantage, number of hands played, number of shoes played through, and so forth, I think I've got a pretty good idea of what software I'm up against.

[mofungoo]

I've asked for comps the first time I've been to a casino, and the floor wrote the comp OK on their business card. As s/he handed me the comp they said, "This one's on me" with a smile. Totally discretionary.

[RobinHood21]

Its quite obvious that where he worked differs from where I play, and I'd wager some large stakes on the fact that his player status isn't even remotely a fraction of mine.

True on different casinos have different systems, but that would be quite possibly the worst bet ever.

T3, I know how the freebies work buddy, been hustling them for a long time now. My point is specifically in regards to hosts, which Robin is wrong. MY hosts will add whatever I ask for, to my account or sign it out themselves. I pay nothing, my comps/points receive not deduction, and my daily/monthly/yearly perks stay the same or grow, that's it.

In regards to Robin and I's player status, I don't think you understood my point there. I'm what the industry calls a "high roller" on a few specific types of games, and this gives me top card and my being showered with freebies. I eat for free 24/7/365, hotel whenever I please, free alcohol (not in vegas) and a plethora of freebie fun stuff like VIP tournaments and such.

As for your inkling that I am a high stakes player, you are incorrect. I am a redchipper at blackjack, and my hours of play are probably the nearest rival to KJ on this forum. I've been a 4-5 day a week guy now for the better part of a decade T3, and now I've moved more of my play towards APBJ than my other AP tricks.

I highly doubt that you can rattle off the formula for which you accrue points or comps or freebies at your specific shops of play. If you can, then I would agree that you know how freebies work.

All of that stuff has been earned because of your previous play. Earned does not equal free. Floor have discretionary comps that they can issue to "players" (not just anybody because that could possibly be "free" then) they feel. Hosts have the same with a little more fire power. Assistant Casino Managers the same. Casino Managers even more. Etc. as you need to include slot personnel as well. But there better be a good reason as to why a discretionary is issued. There is a paper trail and all discretionary comps are reviewed to make sure there was a "good" reason. And reason is play. And to make the customer feel like they went out of their way to "hook" you up. When in actuality it is all accounted for and justified.

[ZeeBabar]

At one casino, there is a small screen on top of some ASM machines. I saw a freindly pit boss come over. He took three cards out of a 6 deck stack and laid it on top of the ASM, then let ASM do the shuffle. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was testing the machine. A few minutes later, the red light comes on, he looks at the screen, flips the cards over and then says the machine works. I asked him if the machine can read the cards, and he said that is what he just did, he took the cards out and the screen told him how many cards were missing and what they were.

I guess this means that they can indeeed sort the cars. Now, it they see there are 3 players at the table, they could probably remotely enter the number of guys playing and a fixed sort and cheat!

[mofungoo]

At one casino, there is a small screen on top of some ASM machines. I saw a freindly pit boss come over. He took three cards out of a 6 deck stack and laid it on top of the ASM, then let ASM do the shuffle. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was testing the machine. A few minutes later, the red light comes on, he looks at the screen, flips the cards over and then says the machine works. I asked him if the machine can read the cards, and he said that is what he just did, he took the cards out and the screen told him how many cards were missing and what they were.

I guess this means that they can indeeed sort the cars. Now, it they see there are 3 players at the table, they could probably remotely enter the number of guys playing and a fixed sort and cheat!

Bullshit.

[KronikBuddha]

Does it specify if there is a specific number of players? I would possibly believe this to be true only if there is a set number of players and only because I've heard tremendous things about CAA.

He is talking about playing heads up against the cooler deck. And suggests that playing two spots would help against those specific decks, but then he says that some of the cooler decks will beat you even then.

And still... This order of cards would probably rely on the player/players playing a certain way. One split of tens or out of ordinary play could mess with the so called "order".

You can't play differently to try and outplay the cooler decks JG describes. They are designed to beat you every hand no matter where you cut. So if you play a hand out of the ordinary way, the cooler just resumes on the next hand to continue beating you just as it would have if you originally cut there in the first place.

[ohbehave]

Could it be that the "cooler" shoe is sorted in such a manner that there is always a TC of 0? Assuming no cards are removed, it seems to me this is the only way to give the player the cut and at the same time guarantee a house edge, any other sort would offer the possibility of a player edge dependent on the cut.

I would like to hear an explanation how a shoe can be sorted so that no matter where I cut or how I play I lose every hand. Until I see that I am highly skeptical.

[KronikBuddha]

It could be, although the house edge on one of these decks isn't the casino's normal house edge. It must be something closer to 100% because at best you will push a couple hands and lose the rest by playing bs. And at worst you just lose every single hand.

Here is one example of a cooler deck for a single deck game, heads up, any rules. TAT398T256T74, then repeat the sequence 3 more times to get a full deck. The player should lose every hand.

[KronikBuddha]

I would like to hear an explanation how a shoe can be sorted so that no matter where I cut or how I play I lose every hand. Until I see that I am highly skeptical.

Get the book. It's more than worth whatever you might have to pay to buy it.

[muckz]

.

Here is one example of a cooler deck for a single deck game, heads up, any rules. TAT398T256T74, then repeat the sequence 3 more times to get a full deck. The player should lose every hand.

.

If this is correct order, I found the game, played heads up, I would be very very rich person