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Thread: CVCX New User Qs?

  1. #1


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    CVCX New User Qs?

    I've run a sim multiple times for the same game and am a bit confused by the results I'm getting. The game is DD, S17, RSA, DAS, no HSA... according to other calculators, the house edge is right around 0.19 - But in CVCX (see attachment) it looks like the house edge is only 0.02 for 3 players and -0.03 for 1 player (player has the advantage). The sim uses basic Hi-Lo Ill18 and Fab4. Am I doing the sim incorrectly or am I misunderstanding the results? Being a new user, any help is greatly appreciated!

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  2. #2
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    True count of zero is not the same thing as basic strategy. This is a common misconception.

    Also note that nearly all Blackjack calculators ignore the cut-card effect and incorrectly combine rule advantages.
    Last edited by Norm; 04-24-2014 at 09:16 AM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    So a house edge calculator calculates the average edge assuming basic strategy play always? Where as the win/loss column calculates the edge at each particular true count based on the strategy/indices provided - So in this circumstance, would I have a very slight advantage over the house on the very first hand after a shuffle?

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    The house edge calculators generally estimate the edge of the first hand after a shuffle. The TC 0 row gives you the average edge at counts that you calculate to a TC of zero depending on the calculation method used: truncation, flooring or rounding.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Ok that makes sense - a little difficult to accept that TC 0 is different than basic strategy, but it does makes sense.

    So that 0.03% player advantage at TC 0 doesn't look unusual (I used flooring) - it's to be expected at a game like this? Thanks for the help Norm!

  6. #6
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Basic Strategy says to Hit 10-6 vs 10. The count is -1. Basic Strategy never assumes a count of 0.

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    "Basic Strategy never assumes a count of 0."

    BS strategy often is for situations when the count is zero, though. A better way to state this is that BS assumes the removal of the player's original two cards and the dealer's upcard. If that makes the RC (and, therefore, the true count) zero, so be it. If it makes the RC something else, then, for that play, BS is NOT for the count of zero. So, to me, a more accurate way to state it is that BS maximizes the expectation of the hand, given the removal of the aforementioned three cards, regardless of what that makes the true count at that moment.

    I know you know all this, but it has been the source of great confusion for many players over the years.

    Don

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "Basic Strategy never assumes a count of 0."

    BS strategy often is for situations when the count is zero, though. A better way to state this is that BS assumes the removal of the player's original two cards and the dealer's upcard. If that makes the RC (and, therefore, the true count) zero, so be it. If it makes the RC something else, then, for that play, BS is NOT for the count of zero. So, to me, a more accurate way to state it is that BS maximizes the expectation of the hand, given the removal of the aforementioned three cards, regardless of what that makes the true count at that moment.

    I know you know all this, but it has been the source of great confusion for many players over the years.

    Don
    Perhaps more accurately "Basic Strategy never AUTOMATICALLY assumes a count of 0"

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    I can live with that. Of course, that doesn't tell you what it does assume.

    Don

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