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Irrelevant. Stop worrying so much about which count to use. The people who constantly worry about it, are the same people who don't get in enough hours to realize it doesn't mean anything. Go get some table time. Don't be like me in the past worrying about all that crap and quit over thinking it. Any count will get the money. The differences from counts will only be realized after a TON of hours anyway, so go play.
If you really like halves, by all means learn it, but only if you're honest with yourself that it can become second nature at the same time using over 100+ indices playing at 120-130 hands per hour, while still being able to maintain a great act.
If you can do that, learn the decimal halves by Wong from Professional Blackjack, and don't double the integers. I still use this count although I did think about going back to hi-lo, but for different reasons(two table backcounting), but decided to stick to halves.
Moses has a valid point. In SD games the count you use makes a big difference. Your advantage is primarily from playing deviations as little bet variation is tolerated. The count he asked to have done has a horrible PE, even worse than Hilo, and a terrible IC. This would not be helpful to SD efficiency. Too much weight on the ace and bringing in the 8 in the primary count is a terrible idea. You want to be side counting these cards that act either way and making the appropriate adjustments for each situation. This is where the extra effort to side counting pays big dividends. There are only 4 cards of each rank to keep track of and they shuffle frequently. This is excatly what HIOPT I was made for. It keeps a minimal main count of the cards that are most consistent and allows for side count adjustments for the ace and the other cards whose effects are important to playing but more variable to the situation.
Last edited by Three; 04-22-2014 at 07:16 AM.
The SD betting EOR's for 3:2 BJ (A-T):
-0.311, +0.194, +0.224, +0.280, +0.352, +0.234, +0.143, 0, -0.092, -0.260
Note the 8 has a betting EOR of 0 as it is tagged in every count except yours. All other counts count the 8 as zero and if it is considered at all, it is done via side count.
Playing I18 cards playing EOR correlation to betting EORs.
1) Insurance: ACE hugely counted wrong, 9 and 8 counted wrong. All should be counted the same as any other non-ten.
2) 16vT: Ace counted wrong. it acts as a low card. 8 is pretty neutral with playing EOR -0.0567 making it a mild low card. Slightly stronger low cards are 2, 3 and 7. Strong low cards 4 and 5. 9 is a weak high card. T is a strong high card but 6 is the strongest high card.
3) 15vT: Ace is a mild low card (counted wrong). 8 is a neutral but acts as a very weak high card. The 2 is a slightly stronger weak high card. The 9 is a little stronger but only the T is a strong high card. The strongest low card is the 6 followed by the 5. The 3 and 4 are lesser low cards.
4) TTv5: Ace is a strong high card but not as strong as the 9 or T. 8 is a weak high card. 2-6 strong low cards. 7 is a neutral card that is mildly a low card.
5) TTv6: Ace and 8 are both weak high cards. 2-6 are low cards. 7 is a neutral low card. 9 and T are strong high cards.
6) 10vT: The ace is the strongest high card. followed by the T. The 9 is a neutral high card. The 7 is the strongest low card twice as strong as the 5 or 6, the 2 strongest low cards in the 2-6 group. The 8 is almost as strong a low card as the 5 or 6.
7) 12v3: The ace is a weak low card as is the 2 and 3. 3-9 are very strong low cards with the 8 being the strongest low card. The T is the only high card but is more powerful than any other card.
8) 12v2: See 12v3 only the middle cards are more important low cards.
9) 11vA: A-7 are important low cards with 4-6 being the most important. 8 is a weak low card. 9 is a weak high card. The T is the significant high card with more significance than any low card Almost twice the EOR for playing).
10) 9v2: Ace is a weak high card. The T is the most significant card and is a high card. 2 and 5-8 are the strongest low cards. The 3, 4 and 9 are weak low cards.
11) 10vA: The ace and T are strong high cards but the T is much stronger unlike moses' count tags. 4-7 are the strongest low cards. The 2, 3 and 8 are strong low cards. The 9 is a neutral low card.
12) 9v7: The ace is a weak high card. as is the 8. The 9 is the strongest high card The T is strong but much weaker. 2-4 are the strongest low cards with the 5 and 6 being strong but not as strong of low cards. The 7 is a weak low card.
13) 16v9: The 6 and 7 are the most important high cards. The T is a strong high card and the 9 is a weak high card. The 8 is a neutral low card. The ace and 2 are weak low cards with the 3 being slightly more important. The 4 and 5 are the most important low cards.
14) 13v2: The 9 and T are the only high cards with the T being more important. 2-8 are the important low cards with A-4 being weak low cards.
15) 12v4: The T is the only high card but is much more significant than any low cards. The ace and 2 are weak low cards while 3-9 are strong low cards.
16) 12v5: The T is the only high card but is twice as significant as any low card. The ace and 7 are weak low cards. The 2-6 and 8 and 9 are important low cards.
17) 12v6: The same as 12v5 except the ace is a significant low card and the 6 is a weak low card.
18) 13v3: The 9 and T are the high cards and are about the same in influence. 4-8 are the significant low cards. A-3 are weak low cards.
As you can see the 3,4 and 5 are pretty consistent with their count tags for playing. The ace is being tagged as non-zero in the main count hurts almost all the index plays and the ones it helps are those heat drawing plays you might choose not to make. That makes the ace a great card to side count. The way the 6, 7, 8 and 9 bounce from acting low to high they are great cards to side count. The 8 has no value in betting and acts low, usually strongly low in 15 of 18 of the I18 deviations. It only acts as a strong high card once or twice. Tagging it as a high card in the main count makes no sense. Drop it and reduce a low card tag if you want to keep a balanced count.
Minimizing N0 (by the way, that's a zero, not the letter O) is identical to maximizing SCORE, as one is simply the reciprocal of the other, with a factor of one million. As many consider a SCORE of 50 to be necessary for a "good" or "acceptable" game, that would translate to an N0 of 20,000.
Finally, N0 is defined as the number of hands necessary to be played such that, if one incurred a one-s.d. loss, one would break even. Alternatively, it can be defined as the number of hands needed to be played such that expectation (e.v.) equals one standard deviation (s.d.); i.e., s.d. - e.v. = 0, whence the origin of the term N0.
Don
SCORE was designed to compare games using standards for each parameter. The purists still use the standards but many if not most plug in their spread,BR etc and get a SCORE for their style of play at a particular game. You should note the parameter changes when you stray from the standards as you tell others your SCORE or it is natural to assume you used the standards. SEE Chapter 9 of BJA3 for a look into what SCORE is and what the standards for SCORE are for SD, DD and shoe games.Originally Posted by moses
If eliminating indices results in higher win rates your sims aren't a significant number of rounds. They are plus EV plays. If your sim shows them minus EV, as a higher win rate when not used would indicate, you are either using the wrong indices or you aren't simming enough rounds. Are your indices for SD? Did the simulator generate them and if so did you use enough rounds?You may need to do a 100 or 1000 times more rounds to get an accurate sim. 5 billion rounds is usually enough except for the real hair splitters. Some things need 10 billion rounds or more to have the standard error small enough to get significant results. Ask the sim guys for help getting better results. You are talking about rare plays so to see the long run effect the long run needs to be longer. Pop the $25 bucks for a copy of Blackjack Attack.
It will pay for itself in no time from your profit increase. Each chapter will make you a better player. It is the kind of book you read through and then slowly ruminate on each chapter as you keep rereading it. Digesting every sentence to get the most out of each chapter. You may not know it but the author (not me) has been helping you in this thread. You will be in his debt after you have learned from the material. The $25 is a tiny sum for what you will get.
[QUOTE=moses;130286] Then I changed the double downs above -7 to always DD. Then I changed the hit/stands above 7 to always hit. In SD, more than 80% of game is played between the 3s. So 7's and up are virtually irrelevant.
Ignoring the extremely negative indices is fine since you will only have minimum bets out. But it is good to know any positive index that is possible since I want to make the best play when max bet out.
I only play 6 deck or 8 deck and it is not unusual for the TC to get to +8, +9 or higher. I would think that for SD you would have even more extremes in the count.
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