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Thread: is this a typical backoff?

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    is this a typical backoff?

    comp dollars all gone
    restricted to single hand and bet limit
    and no longer being rated


    what's the best way to go about this? am i done playing there or is this restriction temporary?

    first BO so i honestly have no idea what to do. surprised they even cared about green-lowblack action

    PM me if you're interested in which house it was

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    Not much experience with BJ backoffs. When you get backed off the dice table ask me about it. Backed off more dice tables in one day than my whole career of BJ backoffs. As long as they remember you, you are toast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggressive View Post
    comp dollars all gone
    restricted to single hand and bet limit
    and no longer being rated


    what's the best way to go about this? am i done playing there or is this restriction temporary?

    first BO so i honestly have no idea what to do. surprised they even cared about green-lowblack action

    PM me if you're interested in which house it was
    I tries but was unable to PM you, so I will post here.

    Was this AC or some other place that is unable to restrict you from playing completely?

    Did all the things happen at once? I ask because I have had a few places stop giving comps and things before any other action, like they were sending an early message.

    This is a permanent restriction at least as far as THAT players card account.

    I would like to know store if you can PM.


  4. #4
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggressive View Post
    comp dollars all gone
    restricted to single hand and bet limit
    and no longer being rated


    what's the best way to go about this? am i done playing there or is this restriction temporary?

    first BO so i honestly have no idea what to do. surprised they even cared about green-lowblack action

    PM me if you're interested in which house it was
    Sounds like a certain AC property, but most in AC will zero out your comp balance. In short, your players card has been flagged. You may be able to sneak back unrated at a later date or on days when people who might know you will be off-duty. That said, whether you have to follow any of their betting "suggestions" depends exactly on where this casino is, if it's in AC you can bet whatever you want until they bring out the $5 to $50 sign on you. In other places they can and often do 86 and permanently trespass you if you are caught playing your regular game against their instructions.

    One additional thing, in AC casinos have often been trying to trick players into to being disorderly in some way, if you do anything at all other than be super polite they could deem you to be a disorderly patron and at that point AC casinos can 86 and permanently evict you like any other casino.
    Last edited by bigplayer; 04-19-2014 at 02:37 PM. Reason: added last paragraph

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    this was AC and it happened all at once

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    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    It was what is commonly known as a polite barring.
    Vincit Qui Patitur

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    It was what is commonly known as a polite barring.
    I really wouldn't say that. If it was AC, they really did everything they are legally allowed to do, except cut the deck in half. That is often the last resort, because all the things that they did only effect the player involved. If they cut the deck in half that effects the other players as well as actually costs the casino money, although most pit folks are just too clueless to even know or realize that.

    If it was Vegas or some place that does allow barrings, then yes you could have called this a polite 'countermeasure'.

    The one that is really funny is the bet restricting. Aggressive didn't mention the $5-$50 minimum/maximum sign which applies to just the one player, but bigplayer did. Back when I was 'wearing out my welcome' in AC, I found it sort of amusing when they did this with other players at the table, because the other player were total confused, being that it was a $25 min table. They growled and complained and never got an explanation as to what was happening. But... it was effective as I quickly realized my days of playing exclusively AC, as I did for 5+ years were over. I just wasn't going to be able to get in the number of rounds that I wanted to get in, at such a small rotation of stores. That was sort of my "head west young man" moment. Head west to greener (<-) pastures.
    Last edited by KJ; 04-19-2014 at 07:10 PM.

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    Ya know, I have always thought the 'zeroing out' of comp dollars is really sleazy. I mean casinos have the right to decide they don't want your action any longer. They also have the right to decide not to extend you any further comps and/or offers of any kind. But to take away offers and gift already made, is sleazy. It's re-neging or breaking one's word, etc. It's just dishonorable. Although no one said there was a lot of honor in the casino industry.

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    If I were you playing in AC, I would just keep mocking them and going around table to table and telling all the players what they did to you and why they did it to you. Tell everyone you count cards and that you will tell them when to raise their bets. What are they going to do? Backoff every single player there? Maybe even start a campaign about how they actually treat their players and what happens if you're a winner. Use the campaign to really dry up their shitty business more then it already is.

    Also next time make sure you make the pit boss explain everything to you in front of all the players. And when they talk to you, make sure you get them to speak loud enough so other players can hear what is going on. Ask questions in front of everyone as to what is going on and what they are convicting you of. Make sure everyone know whats going on and then help everyone make money to piss off the store. You're done there anyway and they can't trespass you, it's AC. Thats what I would do, but according to bigplayer I guess they actually can tresspass you because they will see that as disorderly conduct, which shouldn't be a hard case to win with a good attorney, I mean you're just helping people play a better game and maybe make some money, right? How do they know it's not your family or friends you're helping? I guess you also run the risk of angering them so much to the point they forward your pictures to casinos all over the east coast, so maybe not the best advice

    I remember when I got backed off, I always told myself I wouldn't leave the table when the pit boss gave me the tap, but somehow he kind of slightly pushed me away and i dont know why I moved. Next time no way I'm moving and I will make sure everyone at the table knows whats going on. Cant stand casinos and how they operate their stupid business. "Everyone's a winner, come play here" Sick of that advertising, once you start winning they kick you out, while manipulating all their patrons. Honestly to me at times I really rather just have the casino fail and do everything I can to bring them down, then to actually make money long term. That's how much it disgusts me. I understand 100% why Ken Uston did what he did and I support him 100%. I guess it's a personality thing. Best of luck.
    Last edited by ZenKinG; 04-19-2014 at 07:54 PM.

  10. #10


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    AC is a crap place to play blackjack anyway...Pretty sure I have received a BO from this same store if so it's no big deal you can play there again although why bother when other casinos that don't have shit rules and pen are not far away.

    I would not recommend playing rated at other stores in AC after this, at least for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenKinG View Post
    If I were you playing in AC, I would just keep mocking them and going around table to table and telling all the players what they did to you and why they did it to you. Tell everyone you count cards and that you will tell them when to raise their bets. What are they going to do? Backoff every single player there? Maybe even start a campaign about how they actually treat their players and what happens if you're a winner. Use the campaign to really dry up their shitty business more then it already is.

    Also next time make sure you make the pit boss explain everything to you in front of all the players. And when they talk to you, make sure you get them to speak loud enough so other players can hear what is going on. Ask questions in front of everyone as to what is going on and what they are convicting you of. Make sure everyone know whats going on and then help everyone make money to piss off the store. You're done there anyway and they can't trespass you, it's AC. Thats what I would do, but according to bigplayer I guess they actually can tresspass you because they will see that as disorderly conduct, which shouldn't be a hard case to win with a good attorney, I mean you're just helping people play a better game and maybe make some money, right? How do they know it's not your family or friends you're helping? I guess you also run the risk of angering them so much to the point they forward your pictures to casinos all over the east coast, so maybe not the best advice

    I remember when I got backed off, I always told myself I wouldn't leave the table when the pit boss gave me the tap, but somehow he kind of slightly pushed me away and i dont know why I moved. Next time no way I'm moving and I will make sure everyone at the table knows whats going on. Cant stand casinos and how they operate their stupid business. "Everyone's a winner, come play here" Sick of that advertising, once you start winning they kick you out, while manipulating all their patrons. Honestly to me at times I really rather just have the casino fail and do everything I can to bring them down, then to actually make money long term. That's how much it disgusts me. I understand 100% why Ken Uston did what he did and I support him 100%. I guess it's a personality thing. Best of luck.
    It sounds like you're destined for many back offs as is anyone that takes this advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    It sounds like you're destined for many back offs as is anyone that takes this advice.
    I didn't want to 'jump' on ZenKinG, because it just feels like I have done some of that over the years, but I completely agree with you T3. You (ZK) have to learn not to take these things personally. It is one of the negative parts of playing. You minimize the damage by drawing as little attention, while you exit as quickly as possible. Anything you do that draws additional attention, and makes you more memorable, just compounds the damage.

    A couple good sayings that apply are "cutting your losses" and "living to fight another day". In war terms, you have lost that battle. You don't fight that losing battle to the death. You retreat, regroup and fight again on another day. And because you lived to fight another day, you win the war on another day.
    Last edited by KJ; 04-19-2014 at 11:14 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Your best bet to get in play later on or avoid being flyered is to just quietly leave and stay out of there for a few months and then play hit and run on other shifts unrated.

    As far as comps, it sucks to lose a big comp balance but comps belong to the casino until you use them. The fact that they make a portion of your usually secret total comp balance visible to you does not confer ownership of them to you. My suggestion is to keep your comp balance as low as possible and to use them as you need them...maybe getting the hotel to charge your comp balance for your room part of the way through your stay or use the free room and play elsewhere and then blast away at that store the minute you check-out. Use comps to buy gift cards or pre-print the comp voucher ahead of time to lock in the comp before it can be revoked.

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